the four beasts

Hearmyvoice

New member
islam is the fourth beast of daniel

the second beast of the apocalypse

the history of islam

My understanding is the second beast of Daniel, "like to a bear" that devoured "much flesh," is the same second beast of Revelation described as, "another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."

That second beast, I believe, is Russia/Esau/Edom...whose symbol is known as the bear. A powerful red/communist nation that takes peace from the earth and carries a mighty sword.


Daniel 7:3-5 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

7:6-8 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.


Revelation 6:3-6 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.


6:7-9 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.​

Then there is the fourth beast...of Daniel and Revelation. They are, I believe, one and the same...Islam!

In Daniel the fourth beast is described as, "dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn."

The other beasts of Daniel are nations/kingdoms...political powers while the fourth beast is diverse...a religious beast...Islam and this beast is in power in the last days for from it's horns/powers comes the little horn. God through Daniel tells us:

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.​

This fourth beast/kingdom of Daniel is described in Revelation as.....a pale horse associated with Death and Hell and it is powerful. Properly translated "pale" is green. This fourth green horse/kingdom/nation is Islam. As Russia is associated with "red/communism" the color of Islam is green, "the sacred color of Islam."

The fourth beast of Daniel and the fourth horse of the Apocalypse is one and the same....Islam.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
The fourth beast of Daniel and the fourth horse of the Apocalypse is one and the same....Islam.

why are you mixing beasts and horsemen?

a horseman may or may not bring forth a beast
but
they are not the beast

did you see my four horsemen thread?
 

Hearmyvoice

New member
why are you mixing beasts and horsemen?

a horseman may or may not bring forth a beast
but
they are not the beast

did you see my four horsemen thread?


The "horsemen" are the leaders of the beasts/kingdoms. It is not me mixing them but rather God describing them.

The fourth beast of Daniel and the fourth beast of Revelation is Islam.
 

HisServant

New member
Given that all these events are in the past, all you have to do is look at history and the meaning of the symbols is pretty evident.
 

Selaphiel

Well-known member
Once again, your hatred for Islam leads you to wild anachronistic readings of the texts. Please tell, what would be the purpose of a text that would be incomprehensible to readers and hearers of it for about 700-800 years after it was written?

Read the history of Israel and the four beasts of Daniel become something more concrete than distant future religions, persons or empires. The beasts in Daniel are surrounding empires that were contemporary with the author of Daniel: Namely the Neo-Babylonian empire, the Median empire, the Persian empire and the Machedonian empire of Alexander the Great. The profaning of the temple referenced in Daniel 9, 11 and 12 refer to concrete historical events that Daniel knew about (in what sense is there a desecration of the Jewish temple by Islam when Islam originated long after Rabbinical Judaism arose, which has no temple in Jerusalem?). The profaning was the desecration of the temple done by Antiochius IV Epiphanes, the Seleucid king, who put a pagan statue within the sacred confines of the temple.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Once again, your hatred for Islam leads you to wild anachronistic readings of the texts. Please tell, what would be the purpose of a text that would be incomprehensible to readers and hearers of it for about 700-800 years after it was written?

Read the history of Israel and the four beasts of Daniel become something more concrete than distant future religions, persons or empires. The beasts in Daniel are surrounding empires that were contemporary with the author of Daniel: Namely the Neo-Babylonian empire, the Median empire, the Persian empire and the Machedonian empire of Alexander the Great. The profaning of the temple referenced in Daniel 9, 11 and 12 refer to concrete historical events that Daniel knew about (in what sense is there a desecration of the Jewish temple by Islam when Islam originated long after Rabbinical Judaism arose, which has no temple of Jerusalem?). The profaning was the desecration of the temple done by Antiochius IV Epiphanes, the Seleucid king, who put a pagan statue within the sacred confines of the temple.

what about
the abomination of desolation?

what is preventing the third temple?
 

Selaphiel

Well-known member
what about
the abomination of desolation?

what is preventing the third temple?

I just wrote what the desolation consisted of, it was Antiochus IV Epihanes desecration of the temple by erecting pagan statues within the temple confines, the worst possible thing for a conservative and devout Jew during that time. You cannot desecrate a temple by preventing it to be built, desecration presumes an existing temple that is desecrated. The Dome of the Rock is not desecrating a temple, there is no functioning temple there to be desecrated in the first place. The Dome of the Rock was built over 600 years after the destruction of the second temple by the Romans.

You are letting hatred being your guide to interpretation, rarely a good idea. Jewish prophecy simply is not particularly interested in distant future predictions, Jewish prophecy is more about a particular perspective on current events.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
I just wrote what the desolation consisted of, it was Antiochus IV Epihanes desecration of the temple by erecting pagan statues within the temple confines, the worst possible thing for a conservative and devout Jew during that time. You cannot desecrate a temple by preventing it to be built, desecration presumes an existing temple that is desecrated. The Dome of the Rock is not desecrating a temple, there is no functioning temple there to be desecrated in the first place. The Dome of the Rock was built over 600 years after the destruction of the second temple by the Romans.

You are letting hatred being your guide to interpretation, rarely a good idea. Jewish prophecy simply is not particularly interested in distant future predictions, Jewish prophecy is more about a particular perspective on current events.

what is preventing the daily sacrifice?

Daniel 9:27 [Full Chapter]
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 

Hearmyvoice

New member
I just wrote what the desolation consisted of, it was Antiochus IV Epihanes desecration of the temple by erecting pagan statues within the temple confines, the worst possible thing for a conservative and devout Jew during that time. You cannot desecrate a temple by preventing it to be built, desecration presumes an existing temple that is desecrated. The Dome of the Rock is not desecrating a temple, there is no functioning temple there to be desecrated in the first place. The Dome of the Rock was built over 600 years after the destruction of the second temple by the Romans.

You are letting hatred being your guide to interpretation, rarely a good idea. Jewish prophecy simply is not particularly interested in distant future predictions, Jewish prophecy is more about a particular perspective on current events.


What you term "Jewish history" is God's Word and is a shadow of what would be:



1 Corinthians 10:10-12 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.​
 

Selaphiel

Well-known member
what is preventing the daily sacrifice?

Daniel 9:27 [Full Chapter]
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Makes no sense if you put the Dome as the abomination. There had been no sacrifices there for over 600 years when it was built. Do you think it is reasonable to attribute the reason for the lack of sacrifices to something that arrived over 600 years after the sacrifices in question ceased?

If you see it in light of the desecration of the temple by the Seleucids, Antiochus IV Epihanes being the Seleucid king, it makes perfect sense, because that happened at a time when there was a functioning temple and there were sacrifices being done there which were then made impossible by the desecration of the temple by the pagan Seleucids.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Makes no sense if you put the Dome as the abomination. There had been no sacrifices there for over 600 years when it was built. Do you think it is reasonable to attribute the reason for the lack of sacrifices to something that arrived over 600 years after the sacrifices in question ceased?

If you see it in light of the desecration of the temple by the Seleucids, Antiochus IV Epihanes being the Seleucid king, it makes perfect sense, because that happened at a time when there was a functioning temple and there were sacrifices being done there which were then made impossible by the desecration of the temple by the pagan Seleucids.

what about the past 1300 years?
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
who has been making war with the saints?


Revelation 13:7King James Version (KJV)

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
 
Top