ECT The first resurrection

[elohiym]

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

1. Is the first resurrection when Jesus was raised from the dead along with "the saints who had fallen asleep?" I believe it is.

Matthew 27:52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.…

2. Is that same resurrection reflected in our being raised spiritually in Him? I believe it is.

Colossians 2:12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

If you answer no to those questions, please explain what you believe the first resurrection is and when it occurs.

:e4e:

 

[1PeaceMaker]

I agree, with point #2 being the first, most apparent to me. You can't get around the prophesies and types of the first-fruits that Christ was raised with, either.

 

[jamie]

The first resurrection to spirit bodies and immortality happens in conjunction with Jesus Christ revealing himself to the world.

But now Christ is risen from the dead and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. (1 Corinthians 15:20-23 NKJV)​

 

[jamie]

Colossians 2:12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him[ through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

A person can't be judged until after they die.

And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment... (Hebrews 9:27 NKJV)​

From God's point of view a person can die one of two ways. A person can die symbolically through baptism.

Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (Romans 6:3-4 NKJV)​

Or a person can die literally. It's our choice.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

You missed the state of being "dead in sin," Jamie. Eph 2:1

 

[jamie]

You missed the state of being "dead in sin," Jamie. Eph 2:1

Nope, baptism is for the remission of sin.

Then Peter said to them, "Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

"For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." (Acts 2:38-39 NKJV)​

There are some on TOL who claim the promise was only for the sons of Jacob, but the truth is that the promise made to Abraham and Christ included Gentiles.

...that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Galatians 3:14 NKJV)

And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. (Galatians 3:17 NKJV)​

 

[elohiym]

Jamie, we had to be resurrected from being dead (in sin).

"... it is appointed for men to die once ..."

After we are raised in the first resurrection (per OP), we can never die.

"... and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"

 

[elohiym]

Matthew 27:52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.…

Rev 20:4 ...they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

True? If not, why not?

 

[jamie]

Do you believe this?

I believe what Jesus said that he who overcomes and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

And you?

 

[elohiym]

I believe what Jesus said that he who overcomes and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

And you?

I believe I can never die, as the Lord claimed.

I also believe I was dead in sin before I believed the gospel.

Dead once. Raised. Can't die again. Right?

That helps us understand what the first resurrection is and when it occurs.

 

[jamie]

Rev 20:4 ...they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

True? If not, why not?

Nope, Jesus Christ did not at that time come with the sound of a trumpet.

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:30-31 NKJV)​

 

[elohiym]

Nope, Jesus Christ did not at that time come with the sound of a trumpet.

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:30-31 NKJV)​

I don't interpret that as the second coming, Jamie.

Regardless, the second coming occurs after ...

Rev 20:4 ...they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.

This is a fact:

John 5:28-29 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."

That is necessarily after the thousand years.

A resurrection occurred before the thousand years and that appears to be the first resurrection per the OP.

 

[iamaberean]

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

1. Is the first resurrection when Jesus was raised from the dead along with "the saints who had fallen asleep?" I believe it is.

Matthew 27:52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.…

2. Is that same resurrection reflected in our being raised spiritually in Him? I believe it is.

Colossians 2:12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

If you answer no to those questions, please explain what you believe the first resurrection is and when it occurs.

:e4e:

The first resurrection were the Jews that believed on Jesus while he walked the earth but passed away before Jesus was crucified. So at the time of the first resurrection only the believers were raised.
The thief on the cross was apart of the first resurrected.
Joh 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
It certainly was probable that these were the ones who walked the street.

Notice, Jesus said those that live and believe will never die. That includes us. In effect he is also saying those that live but do not believe will not be resurrected at this time.

The second resurrection happened in 70 AD when the temple was destroyed. These be be all the Jews that lived before Jesus came to earth. They will be judged by their works.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
These were the Jews judged by the Old Testament.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
The sea refers to the Gentiles, who were judged by their works but not from the books (Old Testament).
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Those that were judged to have bad works, were cast into the lake of fire, the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

There is no more resurrections of the dead, we either go directly to heaven to be with Jesus or the grave.

 

[elohiym]

Regardless, the second coming occurs after ...

Rev 20:4 ...they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.

This is a fact:

John 5:28-29 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."

That is necessarily after the thousand years.

A resurrection occurred before the thousand years and that appears to be the first resurrection per the OP.

Therefore, premillennialism is a false doctrine and Christ is reigning now (with those who partake in the first resurrection) until his enemies are put under his feet.

 

[iamaberean]

Originally Posted by elohiym View Post
Regardless, the second coming occurs after ...

Rev 20:4 ...they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.

This is a fact:

John 5:28-29 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."

That is necessarily after the thousand years.

A resurrection occurred before the thousand years and that appears to be the first resurrection per the OP.

Therefore, premillennialism is a false doctrine and Christ is reigning now (with those who partake in the first resurrection) until his enemies are put under his feet.

You speak as one who has command of Greek, but if you really understand it, you know that 'thousand' in Greek is an unknown. It becomes a known amount when it has a qualifier, such as one, two, three, etc. So no one knew how long that reign would be. Again we know because history tells us it happened in 70 AD

As far as Jesus putting all under his feet, the last one being death, refers to those faithful Jews that had died in the old testament. When they were resurrected, that is what put death under his feet.

 

[chrysostom]

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

1. Is the first resurrection when Jesus was raised from the dead along with "the saints who had fallen asleep?" I believe it is.

Matthew 27:52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.…

2. Is that same resurrection reflected in our being raised spiritually in Him? I believe it is.

Colossians 2:12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

If you answer no to those questions, please explain what you believe the first resurrection is and when it occurs.

:e4e:

yes to the first question
and
don't know what you mean by the second

this is reincarnation
it has to be
they have already reigned with Christ during the byzantine empire
the christian empire that lasted one thousand years
I don't know how it can be ignored
all the pieces are there
and
they fit

 

[elohiym]

don't know what you mean by the second

When we are "raised with Him" is it equivalent to participating in the first resurrection? I believe so.

they have already reigned with Christ during the byzantine empire
the christian empire that lasted one thousand years

Since the Byzantine Empire was not founded until 330 AD, and you believe Matthew 27:52 describes the first resurrection, how can the millennial reign begin that late in history since the millennial reign begins with the first resurrection according to scripture?

Have you considered amillennialism? It seems more in line with scripture and history.

 

[elohiym]

You speak as one who has command of Greek, but if you really understand it, you know that 'thousand' in Greek is an unknown. It becomes a known amount when it has a qualifier, such as one, two, three, etc. So no one knew how long that reign would be.

I believe the thousand years is symbolic for something that has been happening for more than a thousand years. See Amillennialism.

Again we know because history tells us it happened in 70 AD

The first resurrection occurred before 70 AD, per the OP.

As far as Jesus putting all under his feet, the last one being death, refers to those faithful Jews that had died in the old testament. When they were resurrected, that is what put death under his feet.

Is He reigning now while his enemies are put under His feet? I believe so. 1 Corinthians 15:25.

 

[chrysostom]

When we are "raised with Him" is it equivalent to participating in the first resurrection? I believe so.



Since the Byzantine Empire was not founded until 330 AD, and you believe Matthew 27:52 describes the first resurrection, how can the millennial reign begin that late in history since the millennial reign begins with the first resurrection according to scripture?

Have you considered amillennialism? It seems more in line with scripture and history.

thank you for your reply
and
this thread

I hope our discussion will continue
I have been obsessed with this for almost 20 years
have you seen my apocalypse thread?

now to your reply

I don't see how you can consider amillennialism since there is a specific end to the thousand year period
and
it is mentioned twice

as far as when it started
the majority of christians don't believe it has started
I don't understand your point on when it must start
many believe this is an argument for reincarnation
have you considered that?

 

[Tambora]

Revelation 20 KJV
(5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.