I know this makes sense to you, but to me it doesn't mean anything. And don't bother quoting some verse that says I'm "blind". I've been down that path.
The expectation of the coming of the Messiah in Judaism was fulfilled in Yeshua.
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
I know this makes sense to you, but to me it doesn't mean anything. And don't bother quoting some verse that says I'm "blind". I've been down that path.
Lol, why would I when I have already quoted your own sages and you apparently do not even believe them?
You picked sources that talk about the Messiah teaching Torah. Something that many Rabbis over the generations did, by the way- that does not make all Rabbis into Messiahs.
Meanwhile, you ignore the physical things that the Messiah is supposed to do. Except that one of them sneaked into your first source (from the commentary on Genesis)- ingathering of exiles.
iamaberean
New member
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
unto this day. Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
iamaberean
New member
When Jesus came most of God's people in the land of Israel were of the Judea tribe and they were the focus of his ministry. By the time of his death he told his disciples to:
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
The house of Israel did not apply to Jews, who are of tribe of Judea.
Paul went to the Gentiles and the Disciples went to the lost house of Israel.
The Jews will eventually have their eyes opened and they will also accept Jesus as their Redeemer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sAGeIbu2ss
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Shalom.AKA Christianity
Unless, like the Muslims, you are calling Jesus merely a prophet and not God Incarnate
Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. He is the Messiah. He is the Prophet foretold.
Shalom.
Jacob
iamaberean
New member
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
But there is a time frame set upon that Word, Isa 6:11-13, "Then said I, how long, Adonai? And He answered, Until the cities be wasted, without inhabitant, and the houses without the adam, and the land be utterly desolate: and [until] Elohim shall have removed the adam far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land. But in it shall be a tenth, and it shall turn, and shall be for consuming; [or a consuming fire] as a strong tree, even as an oak, whose stump remains when they are felled: the holy seed is in the stump!"
Likewise, Jer 4:21-28 is relevant, "How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the shofar? For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have no understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. I beheld the land, and behold, it was formless and void; and I beheld the heavens, and there was no light. I beheld the mountains, and behold, they trembled, and all the hills rumbled to and fro. I watched, and behold, there was not an adam, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I watched, and behold, the fruitful place was a desert-wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the Presence of the LORD, by His furious passion. For thus has the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet I will not make a full end. For this shall the land mourn, and the heavens above shall be blackened out; for I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and I will not repent, neither will I turn back from it."
What is necessary is for one to understand that every person is likened to a house, a house with its household "members", and its lands, (both the eretz-outer bounds commons-profane, and the adamah-soil of the heart), and its fields, with both wheat and tares, and even a vineyard: and likewise every man is likened to a tree, with all its branches, wherein the fowls of the air come and make their nests, (lol). And when the tree is become fully corrupted there is but one decree for the corrupt tree, (Dan 4:13,14,15,16,17).
Now therefore, if one has leprosy in the walls of his house, the man must be removed from the house, (so that what is inside the house not be made unclean, Lev 14:34,35,36,37,38). :chuckle: