would you mind quoting it and showing where?
The Eternal Purpose of creation !
- Thread starter beloved57
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would you mind quoting it and showing where?
beloved57
Well-known member
Thank God for your fellowship in the Truth !
Nanja
Well-known member
beloved57
Well-known member
Yes man sins willingly by the decree of God !
Yes man sins willingly by the decree of God !
When man sins, beginning with adam, yes he sins willingly or consentingly in that which God so determined he would sin willingly in ! So God's Sovereign Decree of determination has predetermined what man can willingly do or not do, if a man commits incest, he did it willingly according to his corrupt sinful nature,by the determinate will and purpose of God, which means this, if it had not been for God's Sovereign determination of it, the mans willful and sinful act of incest would not came about, could not have come to past. You see its like this Ps 76:10
Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.
Mans wrath is just another passion of the flesh James 1:20
For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Gal 5:19-20
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
That word restrain in Ps 76:10 it is the hebrew word chagar :
I.to gird, gird on, gird oneself, put on a belt
To gird something is to hem it in, it also means to guard, to restrict !
Spurgeon comments on the verse :
Back to the point, Yes man is a free agent being being, BUT it is free only within the scope of fulfilling God's counsels and purposes Eph 1:11
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
God has already determined what man can or cannot do with his free agency, and whatsover God has determined, mans free agency conforms to it willingly and responsibly !
Yes man sins willingly by the decree of God !
When man sins, beginning with adam, yes he sins willingly or consentingly in that which God so determined he would sin willingly in ! So God's Sovereign Decree of determination has predetermined what man can willingly do or not do, if a man commits incest, he did it willingly according to his corrupt sinful nature,by the determinate will and purpose of God, which means this, if it had not been for God's Sovereign determination of it, the mans willful and sinful act of incest would not came about, could not have come to past. You see its like this Ps 76:10
Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.
Mans wrath is just another passion of the flesh James 1:20
For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Gal 5:19-20
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
That word restrain in Ps 76:10 it is the hebrew word chagar :
I.to gird, gird on, gird oneself, put on a belt
To gird something is to hem it in, it also means to guard, to restrict !
Spurgeon comments on the verse :
Back to the point, Yes man is a free agent being being, BUT it is free only within the scope of fulfilling God's counsels and purposes Eph 1:11
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
God has already determined what man can or cannot do with his free agency, and whatsover God has determined, mans free agency conforms to it willingly and responsibly !
beloved57
Well-known member
Thou hast created all things, for thy pleasure !
Thou hast created all things, for thy pleasure !
Rev 4:11
11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
By this we know and understand that God in His Purpose is the First Cause of sin, for He is the First cause of Lucifer and Adam, both of them being Created for His Pleasure ! That word pleasure is the greek word thelēma:
I.
what one wishes or has determined shall be done
A.
of the purpose of God to bless mankind through Christ
B.
of what God wishes to be done by us
i.
commands, precepts
II.
will, choice, inclination, desire, pleasure
The Angels, and Man, the Earth / World even were Created for an Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:9-11, a Purpose whereby God would bless Man through Jesus Christ, this was an Redemptive Purpose or an Soteriological Purpose, meaning it entailed Salvation and or Redemption from sin for the Glorifying of God's Mercy/ Grace and Justice !
It involved the Pleasure of the Lord spoken of here Isa 53:10
Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
Yes, this pleasure of the Lord is the same as the pleasure of the Lord in Rev 4:11 !
Isa 53:10 is speaking of Christ, and this World was Created for Him to carry out and execute the Purpose and pleasure of God !
The word pleasure in Isa 53:10 also means Purpose, of which it is translated so here Ecc 3:1,17
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work
The wicked and the Righteous were Created for the Purpose of God in Judgment ! Prov 16:4
4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
The day of evil here can also refer to the day of Judgment and wrath for the wicked at the Judgment ! The day of their calamity !
Both Rev 4:11 and Isa 53:10 are speaking within the context and relation of Redemption !
This Purpose of the pleasure of the Lord prospering in the Hand of Christ, after His Soul being made an offering for sin Isa 53:10
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
This was foreordained before the world began 1 Pet 1:20
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Now to see this, and still deny that sin was Created by God's Purpose for the Eternal Purpose of Christ and His Pleasure, is tantamount to atheism, that there is no God, to show such disregard and contempt to His revealed Eternal Purpose in scripture through Christ Jesus !
Thou hast created all things, for thy pleasure !
Rev 4:11
11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
By this we know and understand that God in His Purpose is the First Cause of sin, for He is the First cause of Lucifer and Adam, both of them being Created for His Pleasure ! That word pleasure is the greek word thelēma:
I.
what one wishes or has determined shall be done
A.
of the purpose of God to bless mankind through Christ
B.
of what God wishes to be done by us
i.
commands, precepts
II.
will, choice, inclination, desire, pleasure
The Angels, and Man, the Earth / World even were Created for an Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:9-11, a Purpose whereby God would bless Man through Jesus Christ, this was an Redemptive Purpose or an Soteriological Purpose, meaning it entailed Salvation and or Redemption from sin for the Glorifying of God's Mercy/ Grace and Justice !
It involved the Pleasure of the Lord spoken of here Isa 53:10
Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
Yes, this pleasure of the Lord is the same as the pleasure of the Lord in Rev 4:11 !
Isa 53:10 is speaking of Christ, and this World was Created for Him to carry out and execute the Purpose and pleasure of God !
The word pleasure in Isa 53:10 also means Purpose, of which it is translated so here Ecc 3:1,17
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work
The wicked and the Righteous were Created for the Purpose of God in Judgment ! Prov 16:4
4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
The day of evil here can also refer to the day of Judgment and wrath for the wicked at the Judgment ! The day of their calamity !
Both Rev 4:11 and Isa 53:10 are speaking within the context and relation of Redemption !
This Purpose of the pleasure of the Lord prospering in the Hand of Christ, after His Soul being made an offering for sin Isa 53:10
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
This was foreordained before the world began 1 Pet 1:20
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Now to see this, and still deny that sin was Created by God's Purpose for the Eternal Purpose of Christ and His Pleasure, is tantamount to atheism, that there is no God, to show such disregard and contempt to His revealed Eternal Purpose in scripture through Christ Jesus !
Nanja
Well-known member
TY for pointing to these Great Truths that declare the Glory of God in His Redemptive Purpose in all of His Creation!
Even after being shown these Truths from the Word of God, most will not find them palatable because,
in their own understanding, they cannot accept the fact that God created sin.
beloved
Absolutely!
~~~~~
beloved57
Well-known member
Nanja
Well-known member
God ordained sin , evil for a good purpose !
Posted from the TOL App!
Oh, yes; for sure!
~~~~~
SeraphimsCherub
New member
These 3 verses pretty much some up where God's Grace begins to operate upon His elect in the realm of time...according to His Eternal decree in Christ before the foundation of the world.
1. Psa_51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
2.Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
3.Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
1. Psa_51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
2.Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
3.Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
SeraphimsCherub
New member
These two verses perfectly show what your saying. And it also beautifully shows the eternal Redemptive PURPOSE for why Christ Created the world in the first place.God ordained sin , evil for a good purpose !
Posted from the TOL App!
Gen 50:19 And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God?
Gen 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
to save much people
to save much people
to save much people
to save much people
to save much people
beloved57
Well-known member
beloved57
Well-known member
Creation of Angels prove it !
Creation of Angels prove it !
Now that this world was Created for a Redemptive / Salvation from sin purpose, it is seen in that it was the purpose why some of the Angels were Created, for they are included in the all things here Col 1:16
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
In scripture principalities, powers are known to include Angels ! And we know that Angels were Created for an Soterilogical Purpose involving the Heirs of Salvation Heb 1:13-14
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
The Heirs of Salvation, for the very word Salvation means:
Saving from Sin Matt 1:21
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Isa 45:17
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
The Angels were Created for that Purpose ! And so, also was Adam Created for that purpose, subservient to it, and men in him, now who can disagree with this ?
Creation of Angels prove it !
Now that this world was Created for a Redemptive / Salvation from sin purpose, it is seen in that it was the purpose why some of the Angels were Created, for they are included in the all things here Col 1:16
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
In scripture principalities, powers are known to include Angels ! And we know that Angels were Created for an Soterilogical Purpose involving the Heirs of Salvation Heb 1:13-14
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
The Heirs of Salvation, for the very word Salvation means:
Saving from Sin Matt 1:21
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Isa 45:17
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
The Angels were Created for that Purpose ! And so, also was Adam Created for that purpose, subservient to it, and men in him, now who can disagree with this ?
beloved57
Well-known member
Sin Essential to God's Purpose in Christ !
Sin Essential to God's Purpose in Christ !
In God being the First cause of sin into His World/ Creation, He by His Wisdom, deemed it essential for His Own Glory, and the accomplishment of His Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:8-11
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Even Christ desired and anticipated the Glory and Joy that was to follow His death of redemption for sin, for which He came into the world Heb 12:2
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
When was this Joy set before Him ? We believe before the foundation Prov 8:31
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights/joy were with the sons of men.
1 Pet 1:11
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
For these things were set before and appointed the Son of God in the Eternal Counsels before the world began, so it should be quite obvious the world began in order to accomplish the Eternal Purpose in Christ, and hence sin was essential to that Purpose !
Sin Essential to God's Purpose in Christ !
In God being the First cause of sin into His World/ Creation, He by His Wisdom, deemed it essential for His Own Glory, and the accomplishment of His Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:8-11
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Even Christ desired and anticipated the Glory and Joy that was to follow His death of redemption for sin, for which He came into the world Heb 12:2
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
When was this Joy set before Him ? We believe before the foundation Prov 8:31
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights/joy were with the sons of men.
1 Pet 1:11
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
For these things were set before and appointed the Son of God in the Eternal Counsels before the world began, so it should be quite obvious the world began in order to accomplish the Eternal Purpose in Christ, and hence sin was essential to that Purpose !
beloved57
Well-known member
That God is the First and Primary cause of the evil in our hearts is perceived by the godly david, for his prayer here indicates that Ps 141:4
4 Incline not my heart to any evil thing, to practise wicked works with men that work iniquity: and let me not eat of their dainties.
The word incline here means:
iii.to bend, turn, incline
Or Ps 119:36
36 Incline my heart unto thy testimonies, and not to covetousness.
And coveteousness is Idolatry Col 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
And the psalmist prays, to God not to incline his heart to coveteouness which is idolatry !
These verses also show that the truly godly do not believe in freewill of man ! The corruptions of mens hearts are under the government of God's purpose, along with any that may entice them; which goes for the devil, our own evil nature such as James 1:13 ; the originating cause of all evil, to include moral evil, is the will , purpose, or predetermined counsel of God !
God is said to be the doer of the evil, even when subordinate causes were employed by Him, such as in the case with the godly Job, and what saith he to his desponded wife, as evil prevailed in their life ? Job 2:10
10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
Now the word for evil here is the same as that in Isa 45:7 ! Now part of that evil that Job acknowledges as being directly from the Hand of God was ethical and moral evil ! Was not the thieving of his cattle and murder of his servants by the sabeans morally evil of them as per Job 1:14-15
14 And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the ***** feeding beside them:
15 And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
Thats Two violations of God's Moral Law Ex 20:13,15
13 Thou shalt not kill.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
And yet Job acknowledges that God was the first cause of those men doing that evil against Him, He actually said God was the doer of the evil !
Job 2:10
10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
Why didnt he say that they received evil from the hand of the devil or from the hands of the sabeans ?
4 Incline not my heart to any evil thing, to practise wicked works with men that work iniquity: and let me not eat of their dainties.
The word incline here means:
iii.to bend, turn, incline
Or Ps 119:36
36 Incline my heart unto thy testimonies, and not to covetousness.
And coveteousness is Idolatry Col 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
And the psalmist prays, to God not to incline his heart to coveteouness which is idolatry !
These verses also show that the truly godly do not believe in freewill of man ! The corruptions of mens hearts are under the government of God's purpose, along with any that may entice them; which goes for the devil, our own evil nature such as James 1:13 ; the originating cause of all evil, to include moral evil, is the will , purpose, or predetermined counsel of God !
God is said to be the doer of the evil, even when subordinate causes were employed by Him, such as in the case with the godly Job, and what saith he to his desponded wife, as evil prevailed in their life ? Job 2:10
10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
Now the word for evil here is the same as that in Isa 45:7 ! Now part of that evil that Job acknowledges as being directly from the Hand of God was ethical and moral evil ! Was not the thieving of his cattle and murder of his servants by the sabeans morally evil of them as per Job 1:14-15
14 And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the ***** feeding beside them:
15 And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
Thats Two violations of God's Moral Law Ex 20:13,15
13 Thou shalt not kill.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
And yet Job acknowledges that God was the first cause of those men doing that evil against Him, He actually said God was the doer of the evil !
Job 2:10
10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
Why didnt he say that they received evil from the hand of the devil or from the hands of the sabeans ?
beloved57
Well-known member
Adam's sin and consequences purposed by God !
Adam's sin and consequences purposed by God !
That the World was Created for a Redemptive Purpose from sin in Christ is quite obvious in the fact that Christ was set up, foreordained to redeem God's Elect before the foundation 1 Pet 1:18-20
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Now, was Adam Created from the dust of the ground before the world was Created ? So why is it that people think that it was not God predetermined will for Adam to sin and bring in the need for Redemption by the blood of Christ Rom 5:12
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Adam's sin and consequences purposed by God !
That the World was Created for a Redemptive Purpose from sin in Christ is quite obvious in the fact that Christ was set up, foreordained to redeem God's Elect before the foundation 1 Pet 1:18-20
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Now, was Adam Created from the dust of the ground before the world was Created ? So why is it that people think that it was not God predetermined will for Adam to sin and bring in the need for Redemption by the blood of Christ Rom 5:12
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
beloved57
Well-known member
By the Purpose of Mercy from Everlasting !
By the Purpose of Mercy from Everlasting !
We know that this world / Earth was made for a Redemptive from sin Purpose in Christ when we consider the Nature of the Vessels of Mercy Rom 9:23
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
The Vessels of Mercy were designated / selected for such before the foundation of the world, or before the world began ! They had been predestinated to be recipients of God Regeneration Mercy that would save them Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
This blessing bestowed from after becoming experimentally sinful in Adam and the fall ! Now all this was prearranged before Adam ever had a being, hence the Psalmest writes of this Mystery Ps 103:17
17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
What does it mean " from everlasting " ? It means that it was according to God's Eternal Purpose in Christ, before the world began 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace,/and Mercy which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Note: Grace and Mercy are closely akin !
Notice also back in Ps 103:17, it is from Everlasting to Everlasting, not to all mankind, but specifically to THEM that frear Him !
Now how do they come to Fear Him ? None by nature fear God Rom 3:18
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. Its pride to deny that we are exceptions to this !
How does one receive the Fear of God ? Its given by God when He gives us a New Heart by New Birth Jer 32:39
And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
This is the result of Regenerating Mercy which gives us a New Heart that Fears and Loves God.
Rom 9:23 again stated :
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Which He had afore prepared unto Glory. This is the language of predestination. The word afore prepared proetoimazó and means:
I prepare or appoint beforehand, predestine. This was something already prepared and made ready in advance, In the Immutable Purpose of God :
In fact, it was the purpose of sin that would render them fit to become the experimental partakers of Mercy !
http://biblehub.com/greek/4282.htm
By the Purpose of Mercy from Everlasting !
We know that this world / Earth was made for a Redemptive from sin Purpose in Christ when we consider the Nature of the Vessels of Mercy Rom 9:23
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
The Vessels of Mercy were designated / selected for such before the foundation of the world, or before the world began ! They had been predestinated to be recipients of God Regeneration Mercy that would save them Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
This blessing bestowed from after becoming experimentally sinful in Adam and the fall ! Now all this was prearranged before Adam ever had a being, hence the Psalmest writes of this Mystery Ps 103:17
17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
What does it mean " from everlasting " ? It means that it was according to God's Eternal Purpose in Christ, before the world began 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace,/and Mercy which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Note: Grace and Mercy are closely akin !
Notice also back in Ps 103:17, it is from Everlasting to Everlasting, not to all mankind, but specifically to THEM that frear Him !
Now how do they come to Fear Him ? None by nature fear God Rom 3:18
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. Its pride to deny that we are exceptions to this !
How does one receive the Fear of God ? Its given by God when He gives us a New Heart by New Birth Jer 32:39
And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
This is the result of Regenerating Mercy which gives us a New Heart that Fears and Loves God.
Rom 9:23 again stated :
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Which He had afore prepared unto Glory. This is the language of predestination. The word afore prepared proetoimazó and means:
I prepare or appoint beforehand, predestine. This was something already prepared and made ready in advance, In the Immutable Purpose of God :
In fact, it was the purpose of sin that would render them fit to become the experimental partakers of Mercy !
http://biblehub.com/greek/4282.htm
beloved57
Well-known member
To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever !
To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever !
Romans 16:27
To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
This world was Created for an Redemptive Purpose founded in the Person and Work of Jesus saving sinners ! Thats why the earth was brought into being, that Jesus Christ would one day utter these words Jn 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
And also these words Jn 17:4
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Now the World, the Earth was Created for that particular Work The Father gave the Son to do !
Now, since the world was Created for that work of Christ to be finished by Him, then also was Adam created by God in harmony with this Work given to Christ to do and finish !
Now in order for Adam and man in him to harmonize with God's Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:11
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
In order for that to concur, Adam by the predetrminate counsel of God must sin and bring mankind in him to be made sinners,
Rom 5:12,19
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Now this them being made sinners, was no deviation from God's Eternal Purpose in Christ, but was in fact in harmony with it, because God had all the time Purposed that He should be Worshiped by man in Spirit and Truth as a Saved by Grace Sinner, Saved by the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ. See it was by the Grace of God that Christ tasted Death for the saved by Grace ones ! See Heb 2:9, which was how God purposed to bring man His Creation to Glory Heb 2:10 !
See, If man in Adam had not sinned, he could not come to God in Spirit and Truth having been Saved by the Grace of God through the Person and Work His Son ! For it was always true of Christ from the beginning of the Creation this Jn 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Adam and man in him was not able to come to the Father in this matter until after the Fall.
Before the fall, man could approach God soely as his Creator, but not on the basis of the Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus, which Purpose was only revealed to Adam after the Fall here Gen 3:15
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
When this Saving Purpose was made known, it was then and only then was man able to begin to Worship God in Spirit and Truth and to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God How ?
1 Pet 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Thats Just another way of saying what Jesus stated here Jn 4:22-24
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
The Only way that can happen is to worship God out of apprehension/ understanding of His Salvation Purpose through the Lord Jesus Christ.
Then can we be in harmony with the stated Text Rom 16:27
27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever !
Romans 16:27
To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
This world was Created for an Redemptive Purpose founded in the Person and Work of Jesus saving sinners ! Thats why the earth was brought into being, that Jesus Christ would one day utter these words Jn 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
And also these words Jn 17:4
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Now the World, the Earth was Created for that particular Work The Father gave the Son to do !
Now, since the world was Created for that work of Christ to be finished by Him, then also was Adam created by God in harmony with this Work given to Christ to do and finish !
Now in order for Adam and man in him to harmonize with God's Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:11
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
In order for that to concur, Adam by the predetrminate counsel of God must sin and bring mankind in him to be made sinners,
Rom 5:12,19
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Now this them being made sinners, was no deviation from God's Eternal Purpose in Christ, but was in fact in harmony with it, because God had all the time Purposed that He should be Worshiped by man in Spirit and Truth as a Saved by Grace Sinner, Saved by the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ. See it was by the Grace of God that Christ tasted Death for the saved by Grace ones ! See Heb 2:9, which was how God purposed to bring man His Creation to Glory Heb 2:10 !
See, If man in Adam had not sinned, he could not come to God in Spirit and Truth having been Saved by the Grace of God through the Person and Work His Son ! For it was always true of Christ from the beginning of the Creation this Jn 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Adam and man in him was not able to come to the Father in this matter until after the Fall.
Before the fall, man could approach God soely as his Creator, but not on the basis of the Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus, which Purpose was only revealed to Adam after the Fall here Gen 3:15
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
When this Saving Purpose was made known, it was then and only then was man able to begin to Worship God in Spirit and Truth and to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God How ?
1 Pet 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Thats Just another way of saying what Jesus stated here Jn 4:22-24
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
The Only way that can happen is to worship God out of apprehension/ understanding of His Salvation Purpose through the Lord Jesus Christ.
Then can we be in harmony with the stated Text Rom 16:27
27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
beloved57
Well-known member
Creation awaits to see the Redeemed Children of God !
Creation awaits to see the Redeemed Children of God !
Rom 8:17-23
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
This World was made for a Redemptive Purpose centered in the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
Before what is written in Gen 1:1-3
The Eternal Decree was Established, that God would be Glorified upon the Earth by the Work of His Son, remember Jesus said Jn 17:4
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
This Work was given Him to do from Everlasting as stated here as Christ is Wisdom Personified Prov 8:22-31
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
When God made this Earth in the beginning, it was for this Purpose here Rom 8:19
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
In these Bodies Rom 8:23
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
All of this was predestinated from everlasting. God did not make Adam and then adam sinned and God needed to intervene , No, Adam's sin was purposed by God in order to set the world stage for he outworking of the Redemption that was already predestinated, foreknown before the world began 1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Foreordained for what before the foundation ? 1 Pet 1:18-19
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
That was the Work God gave Him to do Jn 17:4 before the World Began !
Creation awaits to see the Redeemed Children of God !
Rom 8:17-23
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
This World was made for a Redemptive Purpose centered in the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
Before what is written in Gen 1:1-3
The Eternal Decree was Established, that God would be Glorified upon the Earth by the Work of His Son, remember Jesus said Jn 17:4
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
This Work was given Him to do from Everlasting as stated here as Christ is Wisdom Personified Prov 8:22-31
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
When God made this Earth in the beginning, it was for this Purpose here Rom 8:19
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
In these Bodies Rom 8:23
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
All of this was predestinated from everlasting. God did not make Adam and then adam sinned and God needed to intervene , No, Adam's sin was purposed by God in order to set the world stage for he outworking of the Redemption that was already predestinated, foreknown before the world began 1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Foreordained for what before the foundation ? 1 Pet 1:18-19
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
That was the Work God gave Him to do Jn 17:4 before the World Began !
beloved57
Well-known member
The Primary Purpose for the Creation of the World, and everything therein, was for the Event of the Cross of Christ, all other things were subordinate to that, for Paul writing to the Colossians about Christ's fulness writes Col 1:14-17
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
All things were Created for Him, Adam and Eve, and everything else, for the Purpose of Redemption through His Blood Vs 14 !
When God Created the Earth it was for the Purpose of Christ redeeming it through His Blood, and thats why Adam must surely die Gen 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
See, before God uttered those words to Adam, this event had alreay been purposed Acts 2:23
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Even before the foundation Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Adam bringing sin and death into the world was no accident, neither was it God's second choice of things as to say that He would rather Adam not sin and bring in the devastating results of sin and death, but it was His First and Primary Purpose that he do so , to set the stage for mans redemption through the blood of Christ, according to His Eternal Purpose Eph 3:11
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
All things were Created for Him, Adam and Eve, and everything else, for the Purpose of Redemption through His Blood Vs 14 !
When God Created the Earth it was for the Purpose of Christ redeeming it through His Blood, and thats why Adam must surely die Gen 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
See, before God uttered those words to Adam, this event had alreay been purposed Acts 2:23
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Even before the foundation Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Adam bringing sin and death into the world was no accident, neither was it God's second choice of things as to say that He would rather Adam not sin and bring in the devastating results of sin and death, but it was His First and Primary Purpose that he do so , to set the stage for mans redemption through the blood of Christ, according to His Eternal Purpose Eph 3:11
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Nanja
Well-known member
Most certainly true!
God's Purpose in Christ being the Lamb Slain from before creation Rev. 13:8
clearly shows and points to the Everlasting Covenant of Grace made in eternity
whereby Christ the Lamb was made a Surety for His Elect Sheep Heb. 13:20.
So this proves that it was God's Purpose that they would sin,
before He even created the world through Jesus Christ.
Some ask, why would God do this? I believe that it was His Desire to lavish His Mercy
on His Sons whom He had chosen in Christ before the foundation Rom. 9:23; Ps. 103:17,
all according to the riches of His Grace Eph 2:7; 2 Tim. 1:9; in contrast to the reprobate
of mankind which He created to be vessels of His wrath Rom. 9:22; Job 21:30; Prov. 16:4
which God also created for His Purpose Acts 2:23.
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