The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

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JudgeRightly

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DFT_Dave

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It does mean exactly that! You see it twice but it is not in two locations at once, therefore, one of those images is of a car that is somewhere other than where you are seeing it at.

The fact that atmospheric lensing is negligible for normal use in many situations does not imply that it does not occur. It cannot not occur. The laws of physics demand it. As I said, atmospheric lensing is very well understood phenomenon. Surveyors have to account for it all the time and they understand exactly why. It isn't a mystery or even a question.

Says who? It's the same atmosphere it's being seen through. Billions of dollars have been spent on fancy systems to help telescopes cope with Atmospheric refraction. Of course, Mr. Flat Earther probably thinks that's all just part of the Spherical Earth Conspiracy or something.

No, it isn't Dave! NO, IT ISN'T!!!! No No No!

Atmospheric refraction does happen. We know for a fact that it happens whether we are looking past the horizon or not. Atmospheric lensing is perfectly fine to use as an explanation of why things seem to do all sorts of things near the horizon even for Mr. Flat Earther. THE ONLY THING gravitation lensing is not allowed to be used for is to explain why we can see things that would otherwise be hidden by the curvature of the Earth. That's called a special pleading fallacy.

Thanks for finally responding to this, although I cannot understand why you're missing the point here. In fact, I have a hard time believing that you don't see it.

Here, let me draw you a picture...

View attachment 25299View attachment 25300

Both sets of arrows on the maps are drawn in the west to east direction. Notice that one goes around with Antarctica to the right and the other goes around with an ice wall on the left. One turns to the right, towards Antarctica to go around it and the other turns to the left, away from the ice wall to go around the whole world.

Once again, the number of miles you travel is not even a relevant question. The plain and simple fact of the matter is that a course around Antarctica as reported by Cook and which is cited by virtually every flat earther in existence, cannot have even been done at all if the world was flat because his starboard course corrections would have been turning his ship toward the ice wall rather than keeping him away from it.

The actual car is where it is actually seen.

An inferior mirage is never mistaken for what it is reflecting which is on top of it, the mirrored image is underneath.

The superior mirage is over the actual object and is upside down. The actual thing being reflected is seen exactly where it exactly is and not over a curved earth.

Mirages are abnormal and appear under abnormal atmospheric conditions that still show us that the actual object being reflected is exactly where we see it and not somewhere we cannot see it because of a curved earth.

That things seen beyond the horizon are "all" refractions of things that are not actually where we see them, is not true. That view assumes a curved earth. Actual tests are being made to prove this. But all visible evidence is dismissed by globe earthers as mere refractions. They offer a formulas, mathematical equations, and explanation as proof, but they are not proofs.

Cook went due south three times in an attempt to reach Antarctica and coming upon ice bergs and severely cold weather and each time he "turned back" away from the ice and cold and continued due east which is exactly what we would expect him to do as he circles the flat earth. His record, time, and distance do not contradict flat earth.

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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Dave, this person took a photo of the center of our galaxy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/5sur32/the_galactic_centre_makes_its_first_appearance/

Do you think that he's lying and photoshopped the image?

Or could be have taken a photo and left the shutter open long enough to capture enough light from the sky to show it?

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That is an actual picture that can be seen from earth but oddly cannot be seen from space. Wonder why???

--Dave
 
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JudgeRightly

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That is an actual picture that can be see from earth but oddly cannot be seen from space. Wonder why???

--Dave
Dave, you're saying that it cannot be seen from space, yet you say we've never been to space. So which is it? Make up your mind and be consistent, please.

Essentially, how do you know it can't be seen from orbit? Have you been there to confirm your statement?

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DFT_Dave

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The problem with NASA is they have contradictions everywhere in photos/videos and they admittedly use photo shop for most of them. That they call earth today a oblate spheroid yet show pictures of a perfect sphere from space is a prime example. All ISS is suspect because of this.

View attachment 25308 View attachment 25309

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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Dave, you're saying that it cannot be seen from space, yet you say we've never been to space. So which is it? Make up your mind and be consistent, please.

Essentially, how do you know it can't be seen from orbit? Have you been there to confirm your statement?

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Undeniable Proof NASA is Faking Space


--Dave
 

JudgeRightly

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The problem with NASA is they have contradictions everywhere in photos/videos and they admittedly use photo shop for most of them. That they call earth today a oblate spheroid yet show pictures of a perfect sphere from space is a prime example. All ISS is suspect because of this.

View attachment 25308 View attachment 25309

--Dave

Did you even bother reading the article I linked to? Which seems more plausible, hardware limitations of cameras or a conspiracy that says that everything put out by NASA and every government that has a space program is fake?

Also, you can't photoshop video, let alone video that's being livestreamed. Tell me Dave, have you or anyone you get these ideas from ever tried to figure out the physical location of where the broadcast of the livestream from the ISS is coming from?

Dave, I don't think anyone with any brains ever says that the earth is a perfect sphere. Physics won't allow it. When a sphere is spinning, the matter farthest from the axis moves faster, while matter that is closer to the axis of spin moves slower.

This video shows perfectly how the Earth is an oblate spheroid.

https://youtu.be/FRgCF3WStfU

On a planetary scale, there's a lot more mass and matter that doesn't allow as much flexibility as those pieces of paper, so the oblateness is not as noticeable.

Dave, you claim to be a Christian. Does the Bible talk about planets and stars?

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Clete

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The actual car is where it is actually seen.

An inferior mirage is never mistaken for what it is reflecting which is on top of it, the mirrored image is underneath.

The superior mirage is over the actual object and is upside down. The actual thing being reflected is seen exactly where it exactly is and not over a curved earth.

Mirages are abnormal and appear under abnormal atmospheric conditions that still show us that the actual object being reflected is exactly where we see it and not somewhere we cannot see it because of a curved earth.

That things seen beyond the horizon are "all" refractions of things that are not actually where we see them, is not true. That view assumes a curved earth. Actual tests are being made to prove this. But all visible evidence is dismissed by globe earthers as mere refractions. They offer a formulas, mathematical equations, and explanation as proof, but they are not proofs.
Yes, in fact, they are proofs, Dave. People have been building things, taking the curvature of the Earth into account for centuries. Surveyors take both the Earth's curvature and atmospheric refraction into account all the time and have done so for centuries. They aren't trying to trick everyone into believing in a round Earth by forcing civil engineers to needlessly correct their numbers by 14%!

http://www.aboutcivil.org/curvature-and-refraction.html

Cook went due south three times in an attempt to reach Antarctica and coming upon ice bergs and severely cold weather and each time he "turned back" away from the ice and cold and continued due east which is exactly what we would expect him to do as he circles the flat earth. His record, time, and distance do not contradict flat earth.

--Dave
This is unresponsive. Sticking your head in the sand is hardly intellectual honesty. Face it. That one single argument proves the world is round. It cannot be otherwise. And it's not the only argument that has proven it either. If you refuse to allow it to convince you then there is something else going on here than an honest search for the truth.
 

DFT_Dave

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Did you even bother reading the article I linked to? Which seems more plausible, hardware limitations of cameras or a conspiracy that says that everything put out by NASA and every government that has a space program is fake?

Also, you can't photoshop video, let alone video that's being livestreamed. Tell me Dave, have you or anyone you get these ideas from ever tried to figure out the physical location of where the broadcast of the livestream from the ISS is coming from?

Dave, I don't think anyone with any brains ever says that the earth is a perfect sphere. Physics won't allow it. When a sphere is spinning, the matter farthest from the axis moves faster, while matter that is closer to the axis of spin moves slower.

This video shows perfectly how the Earth is an oblate spheroid.

https://youtu.be/FRgCF3WStfU

On a planetary scale, there's a lot more mass and matter that doesn't allow as much flexibility as those pieces of paper, so the oblateness is not as noticeable.

Dave, you claim to be a Christian. Does the Bible talk about planets and stars?

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You can blue screen and fake any video, you certainly seem to living on another planet to think otherwise.

Livestream according to them, which no else can verify.

All pictures from space, Apollo especially, showed us a virtually perfect sphere. Virtually perfect means not oblate. This is a huge contradiction. Your picture is exactly "not" what was seen from space.

http://www.zastavki.com/pictures/originals/2012/Space_Earth_from_space_035859_.jpg

View attachment 25311

This is what was seen from space, so they say.

--Dave
 

JudgeRightly

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You can blue screen and fake any video, you certainly seem to living on another planet to think otherwise.

"Photoshop" and "video" do not go together.

Livestream according to them, which no else can verify.

Dave, I'm sure if you asked on that ISS livestream that you could have them show you that it's not faked, but it comes back to the question of "What would convince you that it's not faked?".

All pictures from space, Apollo especially, showed us a virtually perfect sphere. Virtually perfect means not oblate. This is a huge contradiction. Your picture is exactly "not" what was seen from space.

Dave, the video I gave was to show you how spinning a sphere affects how oblate it is.

The reason it looks "perfect" is due to it's size and the amount of 'flexibility' of rock. Tell me Dave, have you ever tried to bend a rock? If so, what happened? Did it bend very far?


Yes, Dave, that is exactly what they saw while in space. That is a photo of what they saw.

Dave, you seem to question every photo shot in space, but you don't question any photo shot on the ground. Why is that? Why do you accept some photos but not others? Are the people taking photos on Earth more trustworthy than those who are in space? Both groups of people are humans, they both come from Planet Earth. What is your reasoning behind your arbitrary acceptance of some photos and arbitrary rejection of others?

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JudgeRightly

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All pictures from space, Apollo especially, showed us a virtually perfect sphere. Virtually perfect means not oblate. This is a huge contradiction. Your picture is exactly "not" what was seen from space.

Also, "Virtually perfect" me ans "almost perfect".
Again, can an oblate spheroid be an almost perfect sphere?

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DFT_Dave

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Yes, in fact, they are proofs, Dave. People have been building things, taking the curvature of the Earth into account for centuries. Surveyors take both the Earth's curvature and atmospheric refraction into account all the time and have done so for centuries. They aren't trying to trick everyone into believing in a round Earth by forcing civil engineers to needlessly correct their numbers by 14%!

http://www.aboutcivil.org/curvature-and-refraction.html

This is unresponsive. Sticking your head in the sand is hardly intellectual honesty. Face it. That one single argument proves the world is round. It cannot be otherwise. And it's not the only argument that has proven it either. If you refuse to allow it to convince you then there is something else going on here than an honest search for the truth.

The Great Lakes St. Lawrence Seaway System --Link
"The Great Lakes St. Lawrence Seaway System is a deep draft inland waterway extending 3,700 km (2,340 miles) from the Atlantic Ocean to the the Great Lakes of North America up to the Port of Duluth."

View attachment 25312

Great Lakes --Link
"The Great Lakes form the world's largest body of fresh water and, with their connecting waterways, are also the largest inland water transportation unit in the world."

View attachment 25313

Army Core of Engineers and all map makers show a flat earth, not a curved one, from Lake Superior to the Atlantic Ocean.

View attachment 25314

I grew up at the tip of Lake Superior in Superior Wisconsin. I spent a lot of time on that lake and been through a number of locks, my experience tells me the Great Lakes are flat.

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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"Photoshop" and "video" do not go together.

Dave, I'm sure if you asked on that ISS livestream that you could have them show you that it's not faked, but it comes back to the question of "What would convince you that it's not faked?".

Dave, the video I gave was to show you how spinning a sphere affects how oblate it is.

The reason it looks "perfect" is due to it's size and the amount of 'flexibility' of rock. Tell me Dave, have you ever tried to bend a rock? If so, what happened? Did it bend very far?

Yes, Dave, that is exactly what they saw while in space. That is a photo of what they saw.

Dave, you seem to question every photo shot in space, but you don't question any photo shot on the ground. Why is that? Why do you accept some photos but not others? Are the people taking photos on Earth more trustworthy than those who are in space? Both groups of people are humans, they both come from Planet Earth. What is your reasoning behind your arbitrary acceptance of some photos and arbitrary rejection of others?

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Are you really that dumb? I think not. Blue and green screen background are used in almost all sci-fi movies. NASA is also producing science fiction.

--Dave
 

JudgeRightly

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Are you really that dumb? I think not. Blue and green screen background are used in almost all sci-fi movies. NASA is also producing science fiction.

--Dave

Insulting me is not helping your argument, Dave.

You're not paying attention to the wording I used. "Photo" is not "video."

I never said that blue- and green-screening didn't exist, I said that "photoshop" and video don't go together. PLEASE PAY ATTENTION.

Now, please answer all the questions I asked in my previous three comments.

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DFT_Dave

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Insulting me is not helping your argument, Dave.

You're not paying attention to the wording I used. "Photo" is not "video."

I never said that blue- and green-screening didn't exist, I said that "photoshop" and video don't go together. PLEASE PAY ATTENTION.

Now, please answer all the questions I asked in my previous three comments.

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I said, "You can blue screen and fake any video, you certainly seem to living on another planet to think otherwise."

You replied,"'Photoshop' and 'video' do not go together."

I did not say the video was "photoshoped", I said it was blue screened.

See post #1532

Now you're not telling the truth about what you said.

--Dave
 
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