The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

[DFT_Dave]

Great, now do you have an aircraft with the power to overcome gravity. You probably didn't bother to read my trampoline analogy.

Your failure to even attempt to understand basic physics is nearly overshadowed by your failure to find out how an attitude indicator works.
This is proof you don't bother to read.
Why not prove your NASA conspiracy theory instead of simply claiming there is one to avoid the inconvenience it presents a flat Earth..
No joke, Dave. If you knew ANY physics you would have killed this thread before even starting it.
You're nothing if not entertaining.
Which ones exactly?
Well, Dave, no they can't, but let's not let your ignorance of flight dynamics and orbital mechanics keep you from not understanding why.
Keep it up, Dave. I foresee a custom fitted I love me jacket in your future.
As soon as you become "god", Dave, you can reshape the universe to conform to your personal specifications.

As an amateur astronomer, who has a 12" telescope and takes astrophotos, I can confirm Clete's observation that your videos are badly out of focus.

Now, do you want to start your nonsense over from the beginning (as you seem to have already begun) or do you want to apologize to everyone for wasting their time?

Can you and Clete produce video or photos of stars from your equipment?

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

I don't know where you're getting this stuff from but all of these points are wrong, Dave.

No one knows why the Earth is tilted. We creationist believe that it was created that way. The only paradigm from which your objection works is from an atheistic worldview where such phenomena requires a purely natural explanation. From within that paradigm, it is readily acknowledged that at some point in the distant past, the Earth did, in fact, rotate on an axis perpendicular to the plane of the solar system and that something, probably an impact of some kind, caused the tilt. I DO NOT endorse that hypothesis, I simply present it so as to demonstrate to you that the tilt of the Earth's axis is not contradictory to the modern understanding of how the universe works. In fact, if the tilt of the Earth's axis (and/or the observations we see that are explained by such a tilted axis of rotation) is contradictory to anything, its the flat earth model.


Actually, it is very nearly circular. The mean distance from the Sun is 92.96 million miles. At its furthest point, the Earth is 94.51 million miles from the Sun and at its closest, its 91.40 million miles from the Sun. That means, at its most extreme orbital points, it's less than 2% out of round.

Be that as it may, your comment is flatly false. We know, because of Newton's discoveries about how gravity works that we WOULD NOT expect a perfectly circular orbit. In fact, a perfectly circular orbit would DISPROVE Newton's Universal Gravity. There are very specific mathematical reasons why such orbit must be elliptical and cannot be otherwise.

No, one would not think that! Newton rightly said that two bodies orbit around a common center of gravity. The Sun's gravitational wobble is quite complex due to the fact that there are several things in orbit around it. This, by the way, is an observable wobble (with the right equipment) and such orbital wobbles are being used to indirectly detect planets around other stars. The point being that if Jupiter and Saturn and the other planets were not actually orbiting the Sun, as the flat-Earth model states, then no such wobble should be detectable - but it is.

The force of gravity is precisely what we expect it to be according to Newton's Laws and now, even more accurately, because of Einstein's theory of Gravity. In fact, it was Einstien's work that explained the peculiar nature of Mercury's orbit.

How is that ironic?

It's also not quite true. Pluto's orbit is tilted 17° from the ecliptic (plane of the solar system (i.e. Earth's orbit)).

There is no wondering about it. They were clearly, obviously, verifiably, demonstrably discovered! And not all that long ago. Recently enough, in fact, that all (nearly all) of the scientist's original work is documented and still available for us to read. There are translations of it available online and nearly all of the earliest experiments can be recreated and performed yourself. In fact, there are astronomical clubs and societies all over the planet that do exactly that just for the fun of it.

Clete

Flat universe--yes, flat galaxy--yes, flat earth--ironic. Just trying to make you smile.

Can you direct me to a site, or a video that you like, about "how" Newton made these discoveries you mention.

--Dave

 

[Silent Hunter]

Can you and Clete produce video or photos of stars from your equipment?

I lack the credentials to post photographs or video on TOL. However, you can find plenty (of photographs and videos) on sites like SkyandTelescope.com, Astronomy.com, or any astronomy club web site such as scas.org (Southern Cross Astronomical Society), http://naples.net/~nfn19284/eas/Home.php (Everglades Astronomical Society, this is my club), or any of hundreds (if not thousands) more club and personal sites. A very accomplished astrophotographer is Ted Wolfe (tedwolfe.com) who is a friend of mine. Unfortunately for Flat Earth conspiracy theorists, NASA doesn't control any of these sites content.

 

[DFT_Dave]

That is an excellent point! We can, for example, know that Newton got something very close to being exactly right about universal gravitation and the nature of the Moon's orbit because he predicted how long one orbit of the Moon should take based on how far something falls in one second here on Earth. If he had been wrong, there's no such prediction would have been possible.

There is a great little five-minute video of Richard Feynman discussing we can how Newton was right where he makes the exact same point. Pay close attention to his final point. It starts are 4:45 or so.

Clete

Correct me if I'm wrong but does he say a fact is "how long" it takes something to fall in "one second"? 0:55-0:59

Or does he mean, or say, how "far" it takes something to fall in one second?

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

I lack the credentials to post photographs or video on TOL. However, you can find plenty (of photographs and videos) on sites like SkyandTelescope.com, Astronomy.com, or any astronomy club web site such as scas.org (Southern Cross Astronomical Society), http://naples.net/~nfn19284/eas/Home.php (Everglades Astronomical Society, this is my club), or any of hundreds (if not thousands) more club and personal sites. A very accomplished astrophotographer is Ted Wolfe (tedwolfe.com) who is a friend of mine. Unfortunately for Flat Earth conspiracy theorists, NASA doesn't control any of these sites content.

No, I want to see what you see. You don't need credentials with me.

--Dave

 

[Silent Hunter]

I lack the credentials to post photographs or video on TOL. However, you can find plenty (of photographs and videos) on sites like SkyandTelescope.com, Astronomy.com, or any astronomy club web site such as scas.org (Southern Cross Astronomical Society), http://naples.net/~nfn19284/eas/Home.php (Everglades Astronomical Society, this is my club), or any of hundreds (if not thousands) more club and personal sites. A very accomplished astrophotographer is Ted Wolfe (tedwolfe.com) who is a friend of mine. Unfortunately for Flat Earth conspiracy theorists, NASA doesn't control any of these sites content.

No, I want to see what you see.

How do you propose we do the consciousness transference, your mind to my mind? :idunno:

You don't need credentials with me.

How can you be so stupid and still be able to breathe air? I don't have the membership level to post my own photographs and videos on TOL. If I worked for NASA would you question my "credentials" and the videos/pictures I post?

Please explain why the web sites I proposed you view are unacceptable.

 

[Silent Hunter]

Which is exactly what happens when they fly in a truly straight trajectory. But typically, they flat in a level trajectory which is where gravity comes in.


No, it isn't saying that David! This is not complicated!

To fly a flat (level) course is to keep a course that is perpendicular to the pull of gravity. So if a plane is flying level then it isn't flying in a truly straight line but is actually following the curvature of the Earth and thereby maintaining his AMSL (Above Mean Sea Level) altitude.


I refuse to believe that you're this stupid.

Of course, you can move both through and with the atmosphere. Do you think that people on a cruise ship can't swim through the water in the on-board swimming pools when the ship is moving? Can you move around in your car when it's moving down the street? Can submariners move through the air in the submarine while it's submerged and traveling and 30 knots?


This comment insults the intelligence of every Christian in existence whether Calvinistic or Open Theist.
The things you're allowing to confuse you are childish nonsense. You permit arguments to persuade you that you contradict every time your take a breath or walk across a room. You see contradictions where none exist and that any sixth-grade child can easily resolve.

And I'm not saying that to insult you. I'm telling you the truth about the stupidity that you are allowing to cloud your mind! You're better that this! You frankly ought to be embarrassed and ashamed of yourself. Discernment is a key ingredient, a necessary component to wisdom. You are demonstrating a lack of discernment that would be a punishable offense if you were one of my own children. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what the Hell is wrong with you!

Level to the pull of gravity??? There is no level if you are following the curvature of the earth when you are flying. I will admit that a plane can fly perpendicular to the curvature of the earth, but I must insist that it can also fly "straight" and not perpendicular to the curvature of the earth and "prove" that this curve truly exists.

Gravity cannot magically alter a planes "elevator", the elevators keep the plane flying straight or make the plane descend, nose down, or ascend, nose up.

Either you can't read or you lack the comprehension capacity to understand what you read. Which is it?

Given your premise about the atmosphere your argument is correct.

But if your premise is wrong then so is the argument.

What is your premise? Your premise is, the atmosphere is moving.

How do you know the atmosphere is moving?

This comment insults the intelligence of every Christian in existence whether Calvinistic or Open Theist.
The things you're allowing to confuse you are childish nonsense. You permit arguments to persuade you that you contradict every time your take a breath or walk across a room. You see contradictions where none exist and that any sixth fifth-grade child can easily resolve.

And I'm not saying that to insult you. I'm telling you the truth about the stupidity that you are allowing to cloud your mind! You're better that this! You frankly ought to be embarrassed and ashamed of yourself. Discernment is a key ingredient, a necessary component to wisdom. You are demonstrating a lack of discernment that would be a punishable offense if you were one of my own children. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what the Hell is wrong with you!

I refuse to believe that you're this stupid.

Denial isn't just an African river.

 

[DFT_Dave]

How do you propose we do the consciousness transference, your mind to my mind? :idunno:
How can you be so stupid and still be able to breathe air? I don't have the membership level to post my own photographs and videos on TOL. If I worked for NASA would you question my "credentials" and the videos/pictures I post?

Please explain why the web sites I proposed you view are unacceptable.

You made the point that you see stars through you're equipment so let's see them.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Either you can't read or you lack the comprehension capacity to understand what you read. Which is it?
This comment insults the intelligence of every Christian in existence whether Calvinistic or Open Theist.
The things you're allowing to confuse you are childish nonsense. You permit arguments to persuade you that you contradict every time your take a breath or walk across a room. You see contradictions where none exist and that any sixth fifth-grade child can easily resolve.

And I'm not saying that to insult you. I'm telling you the truth about the stupidity that you are allowing to cloud your mind! You're better that this! You frankly ought to be embarrassed and ashamed of yourself. Discernment is a key ingredient, a necessary component to wisdom. You are demonstrating a lack of discernment that would be a punishable offense if you were one of my own children. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what the Hell is wrong with you!
Denial isn't just an African river.

I sure hope you only write like this and don't actually talk like this.

Your rants aren't contributing any thing intelligent here.

Make an argument or go away.

--Dave

 

[patrick jane]

I sure hope you only write like this and don't actually talk like this.

Your rants aren't contributing any thing intelligent here.

Make an argument or go away.

--Dave

You poor lost soul

 

[DFT_Dave]

You poor lost soul

Your so kind, thank you for your concern.

--Dave

 

[Silent Hunter]

How do you propose we do the consciousness transference, your mind to my mind? :idunno:
How can you be so stupid and still be able to breathe air? I don't have the membership level to post my own photographs and videos on TOL. If I worked for NASA would you question my "credentials" and the videos/pictures I post?

Please explain why the web sites I proposed you view are unacceptable.

You made the point that you see stars through you're equipment so let's see them.

Are you deliberately stupid or is stupid your natural state? Which part of, "I don't have the membership level to post my own photographs and videos on TOL.", did you not understand?

If I told you that you could look at virtually any professional, club, or personal astronomy web site and see photographs as good as, and in most cases better than, any I have taken, why is that not good enough for you?

Now, you can either continue to be misled by "flat Earth" propaganda (many sites are parodies designed to fool gullible idiots like you) or you can take my advice and view a few of the web sites I suggested.

If you have the time, money, etc, you can visit my club here in Florida (meeting information is on the Everglades Astronomical Society's web site). We can go to the club's dark sky site where you can view through telescopes from 4 to 24 inches in diameter depending on who attends our twice-monthly "star parties" (weather and brush fires permitting).

 

[DFT_Dave]

Are you deliberately stupid or is stupid your natural state? Which part of, "I don't have the membership level to post my own photographs and videos on TOL.", did you not understand?

If I told you that you could look at virtually any professional, club, or personal astronomy web site and see photographs as good as, and in most cases better than, any I have taken, why is that not good enough for you?

Now, you can either continue to be misled by "flat Earth" propaganda (many sites are parodies designed to fool gullible idiots like you) or you can take my advice and view a few of the web sites I suggested.

If you have the time, money, etc, you can visit my club here in Florida (meeting information is on the Everglades Astronomical Society's web site). We can go to the club's dark sky site where you can view through telescopes from 4 to 24 inches in diameter depending on who attends our twice-monthly "star parties" (weather and brush fires permitting).

Is there a "rant" website somewhere you could go to?

This is a debate site, do you not comprehend the difference?

--Dave

 

[Silent Hunter]

I sure hope you only write like this and don't actually talk like this.

Not usually, no. Shielding by the anonymity of the internet has advantages. The difference is, everyone knows your name, face, and contact information. I think Webster has updated next year's dictionary to include your picture next to several unflattering words.

Your rants aren't contributing any thing intelligent here.

LOL. Coming from you, that's a compliment.

Is there a "rant" website somewhere you could go to?

This isn't it?

Make an argument or go away.

This is a debate site, do you not comprehend the difference?

These are two terms you haven't actually managed to understand either. Posting long, rambling, out of focus videos and long lists of physical facts you would have done differently when creating the universe had you been "god"isn't "making an argument". Ignoring rational responses (in between the hyperbole) doesn't qualifiy as "debate".

Dave, I gave you the tools you need to understand what you obviously intend to remain deliberately ignorant. Either use these tools or continue to be thought a fool. Either way, I don't care.

All you're doing with this thread is making decent Christians look insane, something I gather from their responses (yes, I've read and followed this thread from the beginning) makes them particularly angry with you.

 

[DFT_Dave]

Not usually, no. Shielding by the anonymity of the internet has advantages. The difference is, everyone knows your name, face, and contact information. I think Webster has updated next year's dictionary to include your picture next to several unflattering words.
LOL. Coming from you, that's a compliment.
This isn't it?

These are two terms you haven't actually managed to understand either. Posting long, rambling, out of focus videos and long lists of physical facts you would have done differently when creating the universe had you been "god"isn't "making an argument". Ignoring rational responses (in between the hyperbole) doesn't qualifiy as "debate".

Dave, I gave you the tools you need to understand what you obviously intend to remain deliberately ignorant. Either use these tools or continue to be thought a fool. Either way, I don't care.

All you're doing with this thread is making decent Christians look insane, something I gather from their responses (yes, I've read and followed this thread from the beginning) makes them particularly angry with you.

I think the possibility that the earth just might be flat and stationary and it might be true that we never went to the moon is what's got everyone all discombobulated.

These tool's you offer are also questionable. The case for a globed cosmos seems very much a house of cards and contradiction.

View attachment 25614

Don't shoot the messenger! I did not originate flat earth, the only important question in my mind is, did God?

--Dave

 

[chair]

I think the possibility that the earth just might be flat and stationary and it might be true that we never went to the moon is what's got everyone all discombobulated.
...

Dave, people are quite willing to discuss the matter with you. This is likely the longest thread there has ever been here. The problem isn't your unusual belief. It is your method of 'debate'.

 

[Truster]

It the earth is flat what does it take 24 hours to do if it is not turning on its axis?

 

[Silent Hunter]

Not usually, no. Shielding by the anonymity of the internet has advantages. The difference is, everyone knows your name, face, and contact information. I think Webster has updated next year's dictionary to include your picture next to several unflattering words.
LOL. Coming from you, that's a compliment.
This isn't it?

These are two terms you haven't actually managed to understand either. Posting long, rambling, out of focus videos and long lists of physical facts you would have done differently when creating the universe had you been "god"isn't "making an argument". Ignoring rational responses (in between the hyperbole) doesn't qualifiy as "debate".

Dave, I gave you the tools you need to understand what you obviously intend to remain deliberately ignorant. Either use these tools or continue to be thought a fool. Either way, I don't care.

All you're doing with this thread is making decent Christians look insane, something I gather from their responses (yes, I've read and followed this thread from the beginning) makes them particularly angry with you.

I think the possibility that the earth just might be flat and stationary and it might be true that we never went to the moon is what's got everyone all discombobulated.

That most, if not all, "flat Earth" web sites are parodies designed to fool the weak minded has you confused.

These tool's you offer are also questionable. The case for a globed cosmos seems very much a house of cards and contradiction.

Seriously? So, you opt to discard, "be thought a fool", in favor of, "continue to post nonsense and remove all doubt"? Wise choice

You want everyone to spoon-feed you physics and astronomy then dismiss the information as a "house of cards" when flat Earth can't stand the pressure? "Contradiction" isn't among the words you understand either.

Don't shoot the messenger! I did not originate flat earth, the only important question in my mind is, did God?

I gave you the tools. you need to understand. You obviously intend to remain deliberately ignorant.

I told you that you could look at virtually any professional, club, or personal astronomy web site and see photographs as good as, and in most cases better than, any I have taken, why is that not good enough for you?

If you have the time, money, etc, you can visit my club here in Florida (meeting information is on the Everglades Astronomical Society's web site). We can go to the club's dark sky site where you can view through telescopes from 4 to 24 inches in diameter depending on who attends our twice-monthly "star parties" (weather and brush fires permitting). I'm certain there is a local astronomy club near you offering a similar invitation.

 

[Clete]

Correct me if I'm wrong but does he say a fact is "how long" it takes something to fall in "one second"? 0:55-0:59

Or does he mean, or say, how "far" it takes something to fall in one second?

--Dave

He means how far. He's saying that Newton demonstrated that the same force that makes apples fall to the ground is the same that makes the Moon orbit the Earth - the Moon is in free fall and that it stays in orbit because it travels vertically relative to the Earth's surface at the same rate at which the Earth's surface curves away from it.

Newton's Universal Gravitation, not only explains how gravity works, it proves that the Earth is round. If it weren't, his equations would not work.

 

[Clete]

Flat universe--yes, flat galaxy--yes, flat earth--ironic. Just trying to make you smile.

Ah! I see what you meant now. Sorry, I didn't get it.

Can you direct me to a site, or a video that you like, about "how" Newton made these discoveries you mention.

--Dave

You bet!

You have to listen carefully because the narrator has a very thick accent but it tells the story quite well.

P.S. That video has fewer than 1000 views and only 14 likes, one of which is mine. It deserves far more in spite of his heavy accent. Most people would have let such an accent stop them from ever making a video in the first place so give the guy a break and like his video and while you're at it, watch his other ones too.

Clete