What is the spinning of the earth relative to?
The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II
- Thread starter DFT_Dave
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The sun. That's how we get day and night.
Is the sun stationary?
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Relative to what?
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You say the earth's movement is relative to the sun.
What is the sun's movement relative to?
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I was referring to how we understand the rotation of the earth. One way is to use the sun as the frame of reference. Another is the stars.
Like Dave, I guess you need to learn that motion is defined by arbitrary assignment of a fixed reference.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion
In physics, motion is the change in position of an object with respect to its surroundings in a given interval of time. Motion is mathematically described in terms of displacement, distance, velocity, acceleration, and speed. Motion of a body is observed by attaching a frame of reference to an observer and measuring the change in position of the body relative to that frame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_of_reference
In physics, a frame of reference (or reference frame) consists of an abstract coordinate system and the set of physical reference points that uniquely fix (locate and orient) the coordinate system and standardize measurements.
You cannot say that the earth is not moving by using the earth as your frame of reference.
So what "frame" is the sun's movement relative to?
Pretty sure that's exactly what RD was asking you since YOU'RE the one who asked:
So, Tam, relative to what?
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So concerning the example of the car's speed being relative to the road, could the car be relative to anything we chose?
If the car was going 50 mph relative to the road, how fast is it going relative to the Pluto?
I'm trying.
But I keep getting "go learn" instead of answers to questions about motion.
If you have no answer just say so.
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Yes
I don't know.
Note that the car is traveling parallel to the road, which makes calculating speed easy.
I have no idea what the current trajectory between the car and Pluto might be.
I gave you some good links to follow.
The bottom line is that motion is based on an arbitrary decision on the reference. Here is a simple example.
- You're in car that is traveling 60 miles per hour relative to the road (the road is the arbitrarily chosen reference in this case).
- You are also traveling 60 miles per hour relative to the road (again the road is the arbitrarily chosen reference).
- You are moving zero miles per hour relative to the car (this time the car is the arbitrarily chosen reference).
OK.
So if it's relative to anything then there is no absolute speed of the car, right? It's all relative.
OK.
But the speed of the car relative to Pluto can still be calculated with the same formula you use to calculate the speed of the car relative to the road, right?
What would you need to know about Pluto to use it for a reference point to calculate the speed of the car on earth?
Thanks, but links aren't helping me much.
I need it broken down into simplicity for me as I ask questions that (to me) logically follow what I heard.
I understand that.
What puzzles me it that whatever the reference point, it is calculated as if the reference point is fixed/stationary (non-moving).
But nothing is fixed/stationary (non-moving).
So you never get a true speed of the car, only relative speeds.
What is the common reference point when calculating the speed of light?
By definition, all motion is relative to an arbitrarily assigned frame of reference.
| In physics, motion is the change in position of an object with respect to its surroundings in a given interval of time. Motion is mathematically described in terms of displacement, distance, velocity, acceleration, and speed. Motion of a body is observed by attaching a frame of reference to an observer and measuring the change in position of the body relative to that frame. If the position of an object is not changing with respect to a given frame of reference (reference point), the object is said to be at rest, motionless, immobile, stationary, or to have constant (time-invariant) position with reference to its surroundings. Momentum is a quantity which is used for measuring the motion of an object. An object's momentum is directly related to the object's mass and velocity, and the total momentum of all objects in an isolated system (one not affected by external forces) does not change with time, as described by the law of conservation of momentum. An object's motion cannot change unless it is acted upon by a force. As there is no absolute frame of reference, absolute motion cannot be determined. Thus, everything in the universe can be considered to be moving. |
(Wikipedia)
In order to determine absolute speed, you need an absolute frame of reference. Since that does not exist (at least, that we can determine), that is not possible.
That depends if you're using Pluto as the frame of reference or something else.
Again, to determine absolute motion (in physics), you need an absolute frame of reference, which we do not have.
Whatever you want it to be.
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Yes
We live in a 3D world. Motion is also 3 dimensional. When we talk about the motion of a car on the road, we a simplifying to one dimension (the car is parallel to the road and is traveling along the road... i.e., the same direction).
So, as I said, I do NOT know what the orientation of the car is with respect to Pluto.
I realize that you think you're making some point here, but you're not.
Hence my explanation below.
DING, DING, DING.... that is how motion is DEFINED.
That is irrelevant. Motion is DEFINED by choosing a reference and calling it fixed BY DEFINITION.
:yawn:
There is none. That is NOT how motion is DEFINED.
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WonderfulLordJesus
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I always say there's nothing like arguing for a flat earth, over satellite networks.
You know, there is just no end to mysteries, like how this thread has gone on for 264 pages.
You know, there is just no end to mysteries, like how this thread has gone on for 264 pages.
The original thread (locked and in the Hall of Fame) has over 5000 posts.
WonderfulLordJesus
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Oh my! You know, there was, as if, an overwhelming foreboding and nausea that came over me, noticing this thread was Part II. But over 5,000 posts? To quote Colonel Kurtz, "The horror... the horror." Well, I'm now feeling very pressed to run along and get some fishing in, before the oceans drain off the edge.
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