The Dems Lie Again and This Time it is Obama

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Our favorite sleezeball said the following just the other day:

It shouldn’t be Democratic or Republican to say that we don’t threaten the freedom of the press because they say things or publish stories we don’t like. I complained plenty about Fox News, but you never heard me threaten to shut them down or call them enemies of the people.
-Barack Obama​

The facts prove that Obama treated journalists as enemies of the people, as the following article from the New York Times (yes, that New York Times) proves:

WASHINGTON — If Donald J. Trump decides as president to throw a whistle-blower in jail for trying to talk to a reporter, or gets the F.B.I. to spy on a journalist, he will have one man to thank for bequeathing him such expansive power: Barack Obama.

Mr. Trump made his animus toward the news media clear during the presidential campaign, often expressing his disgust with coverage through Twitter or in diatribes at rallies. So if his campaign is any guide, Mr. Trump seems likely to enthusiastically embrace the aggressive crackdown on journalists and whistle-blowers that is an important yet little understood component of Mr. Obama’s presidential legacy.

Criticism of Mr. Obama’s stance on press freedom, government transparency and secrecy is hotly disputed by the White House, but many journalism groups say the record is clear. Over the past eight years, the administration has prosecuted nine cases involving whistle-blowers and leakers, compared with only three by all previous administrations combined. It has repeatedly used the Espionage Act, a relic of World War I-era red-baiting, not to prosecute spies but to go after government officials who talked to journalists.

Under Mr. Obama, the Justice Department and the F.B.I. have spied on reporters by monitoring their phone records, labeled one journalist an unindicted co-conspirator in a criminal case for simply doing reporting and issued subpoenas to other reporters to try to force them to reveal their sources and testify in criminal cases.

I experienced this pressure firsthand when the administration tried to compel me to testify to reveal my confidential sources in a criminal leak investigation. The Justice Department finally relented — even though it had already won a seven-year court battle that went all the way to the Supreme Court to force me to testify — most likely because they feared the negative publicity that would come from sending a New York Times reporter to jail.

In an interview last May, President Obama pushed back on the criticism that his administration had been engaged in a war on the press. He argued that the number of leak prosecutions his administration had brought had been small and that some of those cases were inherited from the George W. Bush administration.

“I am a strong believer in the First Amendment and the need for journalists to pursue every lead and every angle,” Mr. Obama said in an interview with the Rutgers University student newspaper. “I think that when you hear stories about us cracking down on whistle-blowers or whatnot, we’re talking about a really small sample.

“Some of them are serious,” he continued, “where you had purposeful leaks of information that could harm or threaten operations or individuals who were in the field involved with really sensitive national security issues.”

But critics say the crackdown has had a much greater chilling effect on press freedom than Mr. Obama acknowledges. In a scathing 2013 report for the Committee to Protect Journalists, Leonard Downie, a former executive editor of The Washington Post who now teaches at Arizona State University, said the war on leaks and other efforts to control information was “the most aggressive I’ve seen since the Nixon administration, when I was one of the editors involved in The Washington Post’s investigation of Watergate.”

When Mr. Obama was elected in 2008, press freedom groups had high expectations for the former constitutional law professor, particularly after the press had suffered through eight years of bitter confrontation with the Bush administration. But today, many of those same groups say Mr. Obama’s record of going after both journalists and their sources has set a dangerous precedent that Mr. Trump can easily exploit. “Obama has laid all the groundwork Trump needs for an unprecedented crackdown on the press,” said Trevor Timm, executive director of the nonprofit Freedom of the Press Foundation.

Dana Priest, a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter for The Washington Post, added: “Obama’s attorney general repeatedly allowed the F.B.I. to use intrusive measures against reporters more often than any time in recent memory. The moral obstacles have been cleared for Trump’s attorney general to go even further, to forget that it’s a free press that has distinguished us from other countries, and to try to silence dissent by silencing an institution whose job is to give voice to dissent.”

The administration’s heavy-handed approach represents a sharp break with tradition. For decades, official Washington did next to nothing to stop leaks. Occasionally the C.I.A. or some other agency, nettled by an article or broadcast, would loudly proclaim that it was going to investigate a leak, but then would merely go through the motions and abandon the case.

Of course, reporters and sources still had to be careful to avoid detection by the government. But leak investigations were a low priority for the Justice Department and the F.B.I. In fact, before the George W. Bush administration, only one person was ever convicted under the Espionage Act for leaking — Samuel Morison, a Navy analyst arrested in 1984 for giving spy satellite photos of a Soviet aircraft carrier to Jane’s Defense Weekly. He was later pardoned by President Bill Clinton.

Things began to change in the Bush era, particularly after the Valerie Plame case. The 2003 outing of Ms. Plame as a covert C.I.A. operative led to a criminal leak investigation, which in turn led to a series of high-profile Washington journalists being subpoenaed to testify before a grand jury and name the officials who had told them about her identity. Judith Miller, then a New York Times reporter, went to jail for nearly three months before finally testifying in the case.

The Plame case began to break down the informal understanding between the government and the news media that leaks would not be taken seriously.

The Obama administration quickly ratcheted up the pressure, and made combating leaks a top priority for federal law enforcement. Large-scale leaks, by Chelsea Manning and later by Edward J. Snowden, prompted the administration to adopt a zealous, prosecutorial approach toward all leaking. Lucy Dalglish, the dean of the University of Maryland’s journalism school, recalls that, during a private 2011 meeting intended to air differences between media representatives and administration officials, “You got the impression from the tone of the government officials that they wanted to take a zero-tolerance approach to leaks.”

The Justice Department, facing mounting criticism from media organizations, has issued new guidelines setting restrictions on when the government could subpoena reporters to try to force them to reveal their sources. But those guidelines include a loophole allowing the Justice Department to continue to aggressively pursue investigations into news reports on national security, which covers most leak investigations. In addition, the guidelines aren’t codified in law and can be changed by the next attorney general.

More significantly, the Obama administration won a ruling from the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals in my case that determined that there was no such thing as a “reporter’s privilege” — the right of journalists not to testify about their confidential sources in criminal cases. The Fourth Circuit covers Virginia and Maryland, home to the C.I.A., the Pentagon and the National Security Agency, and thus has jurisdiction over most leak cases involving classified information. That court ruling could result, for example, in a reporter’s being quickly jailed for refusing to comply with a subpoena from the Trump administration’s Justice Department to reveal the C.I.A. sources used for articles on the agency’s investigation into Russian hacking during the 2016 presidential election.

Press freedom advocates already fear that under Senator Jeff Sessions, Mr. Trump’s choice to be attorney general, the Justice Department will pursue journalists and their sources at least as aggressively as Mr. Obama did. If Mr. Sessions does that, Ms. Dalglish said, “Obama handed him a road map.”

The Dems love Obama specifically because the truth means nothing to him-- and that is because they are the party of lawlessness!
 

rexlunae

New member
Obama deserves criticism for his crackdown on whistle blowers. But whereas his record was mixed (Chelsea Manning, for one), Trump's record is almost exclusively bad, and he's done things Obama never even thought to do.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Obama deserves criticism for his crackdown on whistle blowers. But whereas his record was mixed (Chelsea Manning, for one), Trump's record is almost exclusively bad, and he's done things Obama never even thought to do.

What has Trump done as President which even compares to Obama sending out his secret police to illegally spy on the Trump campaign?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Well from ZeroHedge so must be good Russian sources.

Why didn't you say anything about the facts which I quoted coming straight from the New York Times?

Of course that newspaper is trying to do everything that they can do to bring down the USA which stands in the way of a One World Government!
 

rexlunae

New member
What has Trump done as President which even compares to Obama sending out his secret police to illegally spy on the Trump campaign?

Obama didn't do any of that. But if you want to know what Trump has done that is worse than that would be, how about taking away passports from US citizens and demanding they somehow prove that their birth certificates are accurate.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Obama didn't do any of that. But if you want to know what Trump has done that is worse than that would be, how about taking away passports from US citizens and demanding they somehow prove that their birth certificates are accurate.

Are you unaware that there are actually people who are not citizens but who possess fake USA Passports?

Should they get a pass?
 

rexlunae

New member
Are you unaware that there are actually people who are not citizens but who possess fake USA Passports?

Should they get a pass?

That's not what's happening. These people have birth certificates attesting to their birth in border regions like parts of Texas, and valid US passorts. And they are being refused renewal, and in some cases their homes are being raided to take their passports and throw them in immigration detention.

Again, these are US citizens according to every legal document that exists, which the administration is trying to revoke citizenship from with no due process, and subjecting them to detention. Even in the best case for the administration, the person that they are targeting couldn't possibly have been culpable for any fraud.

It is a precursor to genocide.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
That's not what's happening. These people have birth certificates attesting to their birth in border regions like parts of Texas, and valid US passorts. And they are being refused renewal, and in some cases their homes are being raided to take their passports and throw them in immigration detention.

Believing the mainstream press will make you stupid!

It is a precursor to genocide.

Yes, you are stupid.
 

Jonahdog

BANNED
Banned
Believing the mainstream press will make you stupid!



Yes, you are stupid.

But, but, didn't you earlier cite the NY Times in support of your claims. C'mon Jer, be consistent at least. Stick with Fox or some Ruskie supported internet site. Goodness, dont use the Times, or the Post or one of the other actual media sources
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
That's not what's happening. These people have birth certificates attesting to their birth in border regions like parts of Texas, and valid US passorts. And they are being refused renewal, and in some cases their homes are being raided to take their passports and throw them in immigration detention.

Can you provide an article from a respected newspaper that is reporting what would be civil rights abuses?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
But, but, didn't you earlier cite the NY Times in support of your claims. C'mon Jer, be consistent at least. Stick with Fox or some Ruskie supported internet site. Goodness, dont use the Times, or the Post or one of the other actual media sources

I would rather quote sources which you cannot try to downgrade, like the following article from the ACLU (are you a member?):

A week after the Department of Justice notified the Associated Press that it had secretly seized records for more than 20 phone lines in a leak investigation, The Washington Post uncovered an overlooked search warrant in another leak case that raises similar – and perhaps more serious – constitutional concerns.

The Post reported that in 2010, an FBI counterespionage agent obtained a sealed search warrant for access to the Gmail account of James Rosen, Fox News's chief Washington correspondent. The agent also pulled records from the State Department showing Rosen's comings and goings, as well as telephone records showing phone numbers, times, and durations of calls. The various records and emails were sought as part of a leak investigation into a June 2009 story Rosen wrote reporting that North Korea would conduct a nuclear test in response to a critical United Nations resolution.

Stephen Kim, an analyst with the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, is now under indictment for that leak. He has pled not guilty, and his case is one of the six ongoing leak investigations under the Obama administration (twice as many cases as have ever been prosecuted under all previous administrations combined).

The warrant application was unsealed back in November 2011, but it's only with the controversy swirling around the administration's uniquely aggressive stance on national security leaks to the media that the Post discovered and reported on the Fox investigation.

There are a couple of angles here that make the Rosen warrant unique and uniquely troubling.

In recognition of the special status of news gathering under the First Amendment, a federal law—the Privacy Protection Act—bars federal investigators from demanding materials from reporters unless there is probable cause to believe that the reporter himself has committed a crime. That's exactly what the FBI claimed here—that "Reporter has committed or is committing a violation of [the Espionage Act], as an aider and abettor and/or co-conspirator." (The Espionage Act is the primary statute used to target "leaks," and bars the unauthorized disclosure of classified information if the person doing the disclosing has reason to know disclosure could harm the United States).


What's astonishing here is that never before has the government argued that newsgathering—in this case, asking a source to provide sensitive information—is itself illegal. That would, quite literally, make virtually any question by a reporter implicating classified information a potential felony. The logic behind the FBI's warrant application would extend even to a reporter asking a question at a public press briefing at the CIA, Pentagon, or State Department. If the question is designed to elicit the disclosure of classified information, and prompts that disclosure, I don't see how the reporter couldn't be held responsible under the FBI's rationale.

Additionally, the FBI was able to keep the existence of the warrant secret from Rosen because it argued he'd committed a crime. That's similar to what happened with the AP, where the Department of Justice presumably invoked the exception to the notice requirement under DOJ guidelines, which allow for delay when notice could imperil the investigation. However, the delay provision is extremely strong medicine, because delaying notice means that the news outlet is unable to go to a court to challenge the request before the records are turned over. Consequently, the delay provision opens the door to significant abuse, as government agents have an incentive to delay notice because it allows them to avoid going in front of a judge to justify their request.

Walter Pincus, the defense and intelligence correspondent at The Washington Post, had a column this morning somewhat critical of First Amendment advocates expressing concern with the AP leaks investigation. He concludes, "[t]he reality is that this is not a whistleblowing case. There are no heroes here, and the press in this instance was not protecting individuals trying to expose government malfeasance."

But that's missing the point. Classified information is "leaked" every day, sometimes for partisan benefit and sometimes as part of the grand game of bureaucracies in Washington. But, just as we abide "bad" speech to give "good" speech "breathing room" under free speech law, we grant the press special protections from government scrutiny to provide ample space for the press to act "badly" to ensure information in the public interest, even if classified, has the best chance of being disclosed.

In other words, the particulars of the AP and Rosen cases are almost immaterial. The fundamental issue is that the government has lost a sense of proportion in enforcing our national security laws, and that should be of enormous concern to us all.

Makes you proud, doesn't it?
 

Jonahdog

BANNED
Banned
I would rather quote sources which you cannot try to downgrade, like the following article from the ACLU (are you a member?):

A week after the Department of Justice notified the Associated Press that it had secretly seized records for more than 20 phone lines in a leak investigation, The Washington Post uncovered an overlooked search warrant in another leak case that raises similar – and perhaps more serious – constitutional concerns.

The Post reported that in 2010, an FBI counterespionage agent obtained a sealed search warrant for access to the Gmail account of James Rosen, Fox News's chief Washington correspondent. The agent also pulled records from the State Department showing Rosen's comings and goings, as well as telephone records showing phone numbers, times, and durations of calls. The various records and emails were sought as part of a leak investigation into a June 2009 story Rosen wrote reporting that North Korea would conduct a nuclear test in response to a critical United Nations resolution.

Stephen Kim, an analyst with the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, is now under indictment for that leak. He has pled not guilty, and his case is one of the six ongoing leak investigations under the Obama administration (twice as many cases as have ever been prosecuted under all previous administrations combined).

The warrant application was unsealed back in November 2011, but it's only with the controversy swirling around the administration's uniquely aggressive stance on national security leaks to the media that the Post discovered and reported on the Fox investigation.

There are a couple of angles here that make the Rosen warrant unique and uniquely troubling.

In recognition of the special status of news gathering under the First Amendment, a federal law—the Privacy Protection Act—bars federal investigators from demanding materials from reporters unless there is probable cause to believe that the reporter himself has committed a crime. That's exactly what the FBI claimed here—that "Reporter has committed or is committing a violation of [the Espionage Act], as an aider and abettor and/or co-conspirator." (The Espionage Act is the primary statute used to target "leaks," and bars the unauthorized disclosure of classified information if the person doing the disclosing has reason to know disclosure could harm the United States).


What's astonishing here is that never before has the government argued that newsgathering—in this case, asking a source to provide sensitive information—is itself illegal. That would, quite literally, make virtually any question by a reporter implicating classified information a potential felony. The logic behind the FBI's warrant application would extend even to a reporter asking a question at a public press briefing at the CIA, Pentagon, or State Department. If the question is designed to elicit the disclosure of classified information, and prompts that disclosure, I don't see how the reporter couldn't be held responsible under the FBI's rationale.

Additionally, the FBI was able to keep the existence of the warrant secret from Rosen because it argued he'd committed a crime. That's similar to what happened with the AP, where the Department of Justice presumably invoked the exception to the notice requirement under DOJ guidelines, which allow for delay when notice could imperil the investigation. However, the delay provision is extremely strong medicine, because delaying notice means that the news outlet is unable to go to a court to challenge the request before the records are turned over. Consequently, the delay provision opens the door to significant abuse, as government agents have an incentive to delay notice because it allows them to avoid going in front of a judge to justify their request.

Walter Pincus, the defense and intelligence correspondent at The Washington Post, had a column this morning somewhat critical of First Amendment advocates expressing concern with the AP leaks investigation. He concludes, "[t]he reality is that this is not a whistleblowing case. There are no heroes here, and the press in this instance was not protecting individuals trying to expose government malfeasance."

But that's missing the point. Classified information is "leaked" every day, sometimes for partisan benefit and sometimes as part of the grand game of bureaucracies in Washington. But, just as we abide "bad" speech to give "good" speech "breathing room" under free speech law, we grant the press special protections from government scrutiny to provide ample space for the press to act "badly" to ensure information in the public interest, even if classified, has the best chance of being disclosed.

In other words, the particulars of the AP and Rosen cases are almost immaterial. The fundamental issue is that the government has lost a sense of proportion in enforcing our national security laws, and that should be of enormous concern to us all.

Makes you proud, doesn't it?

Jerry, Im impressed that you accept the statements of the ACLU as fact. So proud of you.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I don't have anything from ZeroHedge, which seems to be your gold standard, but here's one:

So why don't you want to talk about the Nazi methods employed by the sleezeball Obama?

I take it that you approve of his methods but just don't want to defend them!
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Interesting how you get to pick and choose

I chose to use quotes from the site of the ACLU because the liberals always attack any information which comes from conservatives sites. Instead of actually addressing what is said they avoid the issues by attacking the source of the information instead of the information itself.
 

jgarden

BANNED
Banned
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I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
- Matthew 19:23-26


This billionaire president and his "enablers" will all find themselves "NEEDLE CHALLENGED" come JUDGEMENT DAY!
 
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