Moses was a Christian, was the Old Covenant abolished for him?
The Curse of the Law
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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Moses was a Christian, was the Old Covenant abolished for him?
Did righteous Abel live by faith or by laws, rules or religion?
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Moses was a prophet that lived under the law, but he was justified by faith just like Abraham, Romans 4:1-5.
Abel was an Old Testament saint that was justified by faith just like Abraham, Romans 4:1-5.
Ok, justified by faith, but how was he saved?
To be justified by faith is the same as being saved.
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
(James 2:21-22)
(James 2:21-22)
Abraham was saved by grace through faith.
This is correct aside from the term 'eternal'.
Spiritual death is separation of your soul/spirit from God the Father, Who is Life.
Physical death is the separation of your soul-spirit from your physical body.
Jesus experienced both on the cross on our behalf. As you said, the curse is death. Jesus became a curse (i.e. death) for us.
Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),
In Him we have died and thus the law has nothing more to say to us having put us to death in Him. Being dead to the law, we are also dead unto sin for where there is no law, sin is not imputed.
1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
This is the Gospel of Grace, the only gospel in effect during this time of human history. Reject it at your own peril. You cannot be righteous except by God's grace imputing Jesus' righteousness to you by faith. The Law does not exist to save us nor to improve us nor to show us how to live nor for any other reason other than to condemn us and to kill us.
Romans 7:9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.
The law was nailed to the cross.
Colossians 2:14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
To attempt to follow the law is to undo that which was accomplished at Calvary. WHY OH WHY would anyone want to do that!?
Resting in Him,
Clete
Abrahams works did not justify or save him. Works are the results of faith, as a general rule. However, some are trying to work their way into heaven.
Why do you argue with scripture?
So the Law was a blessing at first, then suddenly turned into a curse?
You are not making much sense.
The law never was a blessing. It was a blessing if you kept it and a curse if you didn't. It would be a terrible way to live. The law is so complex how would you know if you were keeping it or breaking it? Paul said that the law made him want to sin, Romans 7:7-12.
achduke
Active member
With God anything is possible. The law is only a curse for those who do not follow it. God's Holy Spirit leads you to follow God's instructions. To be a christian means to be anointed with God's Holy Spirit.
Psalm 119:129-136
129 Thy testimonies are wonderful: therefore doth my soul keep them.
130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.
131 I opened my mouth, and panted: for I longed for thy commandments.
132 Look thou upon me, and be merciful unto me, as thou usest to do unto those that love thy name.
133 Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me.
134 Deliver me from the oppression of man: so will I keep thy precepts.
135 Make thy face to shine upon thy servant; and teach me thy statutes.
136 Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law.
You are seriously strange.
Read Romans 7:7-12 and then tell me how wonderful the law was to Paul.
Things have changed, we are not under the Old Covenant anymore.
JonahofAkron
New member
Uh oh. Big guffaw on your part-Deuteronomy 30 proves you immediately wrong. Come on, Pate.
The Law is not that difficult. It really isn't. God even said it isn't. Interestingly, the problem that you are taking about is the particular problem that some of the Pharisees had imparted on those that believe. Any extraneous rules came from fencing the Torah and not from the Torah itself.
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Deuteronomy is Old Testament stuff. The Old Testament is nothing but history now.
The new and living way is by faith in Christ and his Gospel, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" not by rules laws and religion.
JonahofAkron
New member
So.... Paul told Timothy the wrong place to look?
2 Timothy 3:15-17
You have a very poor sense of logic. Remember that they did not the Apostolic writings all together in a fashion we could call 'scriptures'. And Paul wasn't speaking prophetically. Uh oh. Your move.
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JonahofAkron
New member
Another thing, if we are in Christ, are we living how He lived?
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There is enough in the Old Testament to make one wise unto salvation.
All of the Old Testament saints and prophets were justified by faith in God's promise of a savior..