Arial
Active member
????
The Church in the Book of Revelation
- Thread starter Arial
- Start date
Arial
Active member
I think that once again you have missed the point. So----
musterion
Well-known member
Jesus wasn't talking to or about you. None of what you cited as your marching orders was written for your obedience.
Right Divider
Body part
THESE believers can "drink any deadly thing" and "it shall not hurt them". etc. etc. etc.
musterion
Well-known member
Arial will dismiss that somehow.
Arial
Active member
???????
Arial
Active member
Is that how you justify not preaching the gospel?
And you still haven't answered the question as to what my deeply entangled errors are. You keep deflecting.
Arial
Active member
If I could figure out why he posted it I most likely would be able to refute it. But I am beginning to understand what the problem is with the majority of the responders to the OP.
Arial
Active member
I mention one particular view of Revelation in the OP because, if the rapture is a no more than misguided interpretation or in some cases wishful hope of escaping trials and tribulations. Those who believe in it are absolutely certain that it is true, and that is fine, we are all like that. But the truth is, even though it may be true, it just as equally may not be true. We do not know.
If it isn't what will happen, then the church of Christ, those who are alive in the last, last days before His second coming, will face some horrific things they are not expecting to face. And unless we, (supposing believers will be there at the end), prepare by growing in our knowledge of God and learning who He is and our position, and the promises He has made and what they mean, we are likely to find ourselves in circumstances that we are not equipped to handle. We are likely to be crippled by fear. Much of that equipping comes from Revelation itself.
In addition, if we believe that the church is not going to be here in what is called the seven year tribulation period, that the book is not even for those believers alive at any time during the resurrection and His second coming (as He hasn't returned yet), we then do not see any of the things revealed in Revelation as being present in the now. When obviously they are and have been all through history. So we do not recognize the activity of the Beast and the false prophet when the beast begins to set up a system where he gains power over the church and is primed to persecute the church through utter governmental control.
And we do not recognize the false prophet, also called the prostitute, who counterfeits the Holy Spirit, and walks right through our church doors and into our pulpits, unchallenged. It seems we have nothing to challenge with because we are given one weapon in spiritual warfare, and that is the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Not speaking it only, and maybe in some cases not at all, but knowing it. Knowing it in a way that enters our mind and penetrates our very heart, and becomes our strength as well as our refuge. A great deal of the church is still drinking milk and not caring about the meat. Which is the knowledge of God. We are not the subject of His word: God is the subject of His word.
Can anyone see things that may be wrong that are going on within the church, things that are allowed, or neglected, not questioned or simply accepted? Or we worse off than I even thought? Taking into consideration that a forum is not the best place to make a final decision on that. What do we see out there in the world, on television, in sermons that have attached itself to Christ's church?
One thing I might mention is that some have seen what is a call to prayer, and a deep concern for the people of God, as scolding.
If it isn't what will happen, then the church of Christ, those who are alive in the last, last days before His second coming, will face some horrific things they are not expecting to face. And unless we, (supposing believers will be there at the end), prepare by growing in our knowledge of God and learning who He is and our position, and the promises He has made and what they mean, we are likely to find ourselves in circumstances that we are not equipped to handle. We are likely to be crippled by fear. Much of that equipping comes from Revelation itself.
In addition, if we believe that the church is not going to be here in what is called the seven year tribulation period, that the book is not even for those believers alive at any time during the resurrection and His second coming (as He hasn't returned yet), we then do not see any of the things revealed in Revelation as being present in the now. When obviously they are and have been all through history. So we do not recognize the activity of the Beast and the false prophet when the beast begins to set up a system where he gains power over the church and is primed to persecute the church through utter governmental control.
And we do not recognize the false prophet, also called the prostitute, who counterfeits the Holy Spirit, and walks right through our church doors and into our pulpits, unchallenged. It seems we have nothing to challenge with because we are given one weapon in spiritual warfare, and that is the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Not speaking it only, and maybe in some cases not at all, but knowing it. Knowing it in a way that enters our mind and penetrates our very heart, and becomes our strength as well as our refuge. A great deal of the church is still drinking milk and not caring about the meat. Which is the knowledge of God. We are not the subject of His word: God is the subject of His word.
Can anyone see things that may be wrong that are going on within the church, things that are allowed, or neglected, not questioned or simply accepted? Or we worse off than I even thought? Taking into consideration that a forum is not the best place to make a final decision on that. What do we see out there in the world, on television, in sermons that have attached itself to Christ's church?
One thing I might mention is that some have seen what is a call to prayer, and a deep concern for the people of God, as scolding.
Right Divider
Body part
That's from one of the passages that you referenced.
Does this happen all of the time around you?
Arial
Active member
Mark 16:15 And He said to them,"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature."
You added scriptures to try and make it be saying something that went beyond the topic, which was "preach the gospel." For what purpose I have no idea.
Does what happen all of the time around me?
glorydaz
Well-known member
You make it sound like God hasn't always required works. When has He not before this age of Grace?
You're way too emeshed in covenants. You're seeing them everywhere, even where they aren't.
glorydaz
Well-known member
You seem to be missing a lot of points while you're busy telling others they're missing points.
Perhaps we have a failure to communicate.
Right Divider
Body part
That passage is a unit. It all goes together.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Oh my goodness. Are you being faulted for giving too much scripture?
You are a very bad boy, RD.
Arial
Active member
No one did or could do the works perfectly. Faith, the faith that saves is a condition of the heart towards Him that only He can see. The Covenant with Israel of works, was not a covenant of eternal life. It was a covenant of God being their God. Even if anyone had kept all the law perfectly (which they didn't and couldn't) and they did so only by rote with no worship of or love towards God, it would not have granted them eternal life. The crucial ingredient was missing, therein contaminating even the obedience with sin. There were times God rejected and scorned their sacrifices for that reason---their heart was far from Him.
And you do not understand covenant. You are so enmeshed in dispensations, you see them where they do not exist.
A covenant is a relationship. God makes them with whoever He wants to make them with and of whatever kind He purposes for them to be. The works of the law are not merely legal external requirements, but they contain within them a revealing of the character of God that mankind was created to "image". The spirit of the law in other words, that Jesus kept pointing out to the Jewish leaders, that they were missing. A heart condition. Jesus fulfilled the law, both in the letter and the spirit, qualifying Himself to stand as our substitute in bearing the penalty we deserve. In doing so He inaugurated the new covenant, shed the blood of that covenant, that is by faith alone, in Christ alone. That is the relationship---the covenant---in which all believers now stand. That is this much misunderstood personal relationship with Christ. But you are so focused on dispensations that you have even missed seeing this covenant, the greatest of all, and at such great cost.
To circle back to the purpose of the OP: do you see any ways in which the church according to the apostles foundation has shifted in our churches?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Arial
Active member
Of course. But the command to preach the gospel can stand alone. What is said afterwards is additional information. Not superflouis, but additional.
Arial
Active member
No doubt. Perhaps the communication would have been better if he had told me why he said what he said. A person can't get a point if no point is put forth.
glorydaz
Well-known member
We're not talking about "the works". We're talking about those works before the law was given.
Seriously? Not even when the time time of refreshing would come? There was no covenant of redemption for the Jews?
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
LOL You just called salvation by grace the new covenant.
My goodness. Your pride (fancying yourself a teacher) is getting you into some mighty deep error.