THE CHURCH DID NOT START AT PENTECOST

turbosixx

New member
Gal_2:7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised

There is only one gospel. THE gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with THE gospel to the circumcised

If you look at the Greek text, gospel only appears once because it's the same gospel but two audiences each with a different background.

did all the Jews turn to Jesus?
or were the Jews cut off Luk 13:9 ?
Rom 11:15,25
Where all the Jews cut off?
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
The conversation might not have been in Greek but the conversation and the writing of that conversation were years apart. A conservative estimate would be 17 years.
So my point stands and your feminine 'petra' vs. masculine 'Petros' theory is out the window. 'Too bad, because we didn't get a chance to get into why, if Christ meant Himself, also a man, then again, why the feminine 'petra?' It's too bad we didn't get to dig into that problem of yours also.
Who do you believe wrote the NT, HS or man?
In one sense the Spirit, and then in the physical sense man. The Apostles were promised that the Spirit would lead them all into all truth, reminding them of everything the Lord taught them during His earthly ministry. You didn't think that the Apostles would be able to remember everything they did through only human means, did you? Of course not. Everything that they managed to recall about what Christ did and said during those Brief three years is a miracle itself, and so it must have been God Who is behind the N.T. That's just obvious if you think about it for even a moment.

And which men physically wrote the N.T.? Some of them weren't even Apostles, which prompts the question, if only the Apostles were given the Spirit without measure such that their authoritative teachings were the Word of God, then how are books like Luke, Acts, and James Scripture? And the answer is that these books were authorized by the Apostles as Scripture. Determining the contents of the N.T. was one of their jobs; they wrote much of the N.T., and they approved of the rest, authenticating each of the books not written or dictated by Apostles, as Scripture.
Let's suppose Peter is the rock. Is this the kind of rock you want Christ's church to be built on?

74 Then he began to invoke a curse on himself and to swear, “I do not know the man.” And immediately the rooster crowed. 75 And Peter remembered the saying of Jesus, “Before the rooster crows, you will deny me three times.” And he went out and wept bitterly.
NOT A ROCK

11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
NOT A ROCK
It's a question of what 'rock' means. The Catholic view is that the rock is the pastorate that Peter held, what today we call the papacy, which is the office of the supreme bishop of the one Church that Christ built upon Peter. No pope is perfect or infallible, they each including Peter have their flaws, but the office they hold is what the Lord built His Church upon, not any single man. The only man He could build His Church upon is Himself, and He has, and He has also chosen How to build His Church, and it is upon the 'rock' of the papacy, the supreme pastorate of Christ's Church, the first holder of which was St. Peter. This is what 'rock' means, not what you're supposing.
Would you say the church is perfect or has deviated from the truth?
Define what you mean by "church," so that I can answer the right question for you.

When I say "Church," unless I specify the Catholic Church, I mean the one Body of Christ, which are all those Catholics who are in full communion with each other, and all those non-Catholic people and Catholics not currently in full communion, but who believe in Christ. And the Church is a Society of people.

The Church as a Society of people are perfect in the sense that Christ has sanctified us and cleansed us such that we are without spot or wrinkle or blemish (Eph5:26-27KJV), and we are objectively imperfect in our flesh, as we are a cluster of sinners.

If you mean by "church," the authentic pastorate (Bishop, cf. 1Ti3:1KJV), then my answer is that their teachings in all matters of faith and morals is perfect.
 

Right Divider

Body part
When was this church established?
Matt. 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Do you not believe this?
Building does NOT mean starting. I know that Churchianity has pounded this into peoples heads, but it's just not true.
 

turbosixx

New member
In one sense the Spirit, and then in the physical sense man. The Apostles were promised that the Spirit would lead them all into all truth, reminding them of everything the Lord taught them during His earthly ministry. You didn't think that the Apostles would be able to remember everything they did through only human means, did you? Of course not. Everything that they managed to recall about what Christ did and said during those Brief three years is a miracle itself, and so it must have been God Who is behind the N.T. That's just obvious if you think about it for even a moment.

And which men physically wrote the N.T.? Some of them weren't even Apostles, which prompts the question, if only the Apostles were given the Spirit without measure such that their authoritative teachings were the Word of God, then how are books like Luke, Acts, and James Scripture? And the answer is that these books were authorized by the Apostles as Scripture. Determining the contents of the N.T. was one of their jobs; they wrote much of the N.T., and they approved of the rest, authenticating each of the books not written or dictated by Apostles, as Scripture.
I agree

what today we call the papacy, which is the office of the supreme bishop of the one Church that Christ built upon Peter.
I'm familiar with the office of elder and deacon. We are given the requirement for each in scripture. Where would I find the requirements for pope?

the first holder of which was St. Peter.
What evidence are you basing Peter being the first pope on?

When I say "Church," unless I specify the Catholic Church, I mean the one Body of Christ, which are all those Catholics who are in full communion with each other, and all those non-Catholic people and Catholics not currently in full communion, but who believe in Christ. And the Church is a Society of people.

The Church as a Society of people are perfect in the sense that Christ has sanctified us and cleansed us such that we are without spot or wrinkle or blemish (Eph5:26-27KJV), and we are objectively imperfect in our flesh, as we are a cluster of sinners.
I agree with this definition except for the Catholic part. Do you believe Jesus is divided?

If you mean by "church," the authentic pastorate (Bishop, cf. 1Ti3:1KJV), then my answer is that their teachings in all matters of faith and morals is perfect.
Are you saying the teachings of the papacy have and are perfect even today?
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
OK.
I'm familiar with the office of elder and deacon.
OK. I'm supposing your local church has men or women holding those offices. Does your local church, if you do go to church, also have a man or a woman holding "the office of a bishop" (1Ti3:1KJV) at the moment?
We are given the requirement for each in scripture. Where would I find the requirements for pope?
That's easy. His job is to "feed." John 21:15 KJV John 21:16 KJV John 21:17 KJV
What evidence are you basing Peter being the first pope on?
History.
I agree with this definition except for the Catholic part. Do you believe Jesus is divided?
I doubt it, but in what way do you mean 'divided,' just so we're clear on what you're asking about?
Are you saying the teachings of the papacy have and are perfect even today?
In all matters of faith and morals.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
There is only one gospel. THE gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with THE gospel to the circumcised

If you look at the Greek text, gospel only appears once because it's the same gospel but two audiences each with a different background.
each with a different dispensation
different branches different church same root.
Where all the Jews cut off?

did all the Jews turn to Jesus?

did this happen ?
Mat 24:34 Truly I say to you, This generation shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled.
or did this happen ?
Jer 18:9 And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it,
Jer 18:10 and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it.


were the Jews cut off
Luk 13:9
Then if it should bear fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.'"

Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
 

turbosixx

New member
I'm supposing your local church has men or women holding those offices. Does your local church, if you do go to church, also have a man or a woman holding "the office of a bishop" (1Ti3:1KJV) at the moment?
Yes, we have elders. By the requirements only a man qualifies.

That's easy. His job is to "feed." John 21:15 KJV John 21:16 KJV John 21:17 KJV
That is a job not a qualification. If that is your "qualification" then anyone can be pope, even a woman. Where do find the requirements for someone to qualify to be pope?
I would not base God's truth on history. It's subjective to the viewer. Would you be for inquisitions? That is in your history.
I doubt it, but in what way do you mean 'divided,' just so we're clear on what you're asking about?
By calling yourself Catholic, you are separating yourself from other Christians.
10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

Shouldn't we all just be "Christian". No hyphenations.
28 And Agrippa said to Paul, “In a short time would you persuade me to be a Christian?”

In all matters of faith and morals.
How do you know? Where do you get that proof?
 

turbosixx

New member
each with a different dispensation
different branches different church same root.
It appears to me that by you're logic the Corinthians were doing the right thing in dividing themselves because they are not members of the same church. Some were converted by Peter, some by Apollos and some by Paul.

I don't see where Paul even hint that they are in different churches.
1 Cor. 1:2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:
1:4 I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus,
1:9 God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.


He tells them they should not be dividing themselves.
1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.


did all the Jews turn to Jesus?
I would love to answer but first I need to know what you consider a Jew.

did this happen ?
Mat 24:34 Truly I say to you, This generation shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled.
Jesus said it would and I believe Him. I trust Him.
or did this happen ?
Jer 18:9 And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it,
Jer 18:10 and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it.
I believe this is true as well. I can expand on it once we come to an agreement on who is a Jew.


were the Jews cut off
Luk 13:9
Then if it should bear fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.'"

Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Who do you believe tore the veil and destroyed the temple?
 

Truster

New member
The word church is an English word of pagan origin. It has no Hebrew, Aramaic nor Greek root, therefore, it is not a scriptural word. You obviously have no idea what it means and are just repeating it parrot fashion. You are trying to sound authoritative in understanding a word you don't understand. You might fool the gullible and lead them into the pit you'll end up in, but you can't fool us*

us* redeemed, regenerate, repentant and enlightened sinners.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
I believe the Church began in Adam at the beginning. Adam and Eve began the Body of Christ, the Church. Eph 5:30-32

[FONT=&quot]30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.[/FONT]
 

Truster

New member
The ecclesia began before the foundation of the world. It began when The Lambs Book of Life was compiled and handed to The Eternal Son. He is the Head over the ecclesia and originator. He is the Alpha and the Omega of the ecclesia.
 
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