The Church/Body of Christ in OT !

[Nanja]

Another way we know from scripture that the Church, Christ's Wife existed in the OT is John the baptist words here Jn 3:29

[FONT="]He that hath the bride is the [/FONT]bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

Now who is John referring to as the bridegroom here ? Its surely Jesus Christ. And technically because Christ had not yet died, the OT Covenant Law period was still in force, but yet During this time Christ is spiritually recognized as the bridegroom, having a bride, which I believe is the Church Eph 5

I agree! And by John's words referring to a bride and a bridegroom, it had to be revealed to him by God, that He had a Special Chosen People in the world, a Covenant People as in Deut. 7:6-9, but that it did not consist of ethnic jews exclusively, for many John called out as being vipers Mat. 3:7,9.

So those who make up the Bridegroom's Bride were originally in Adam; Eve being the Mother of all the Living Gen. 3:20, the Church.

Adam and Eve were a picture of the Church.

 

[beloved57]

I agree! And by John's words referring to a bride and a bridegroom, it had to be revealed to him by God, that He had a Special Chosen People in the world, a Covenant People as in Deut. 7:6-9, but that it did not consist of ethnic jews exclusively, for many John called out as being vipers Mat. 3:7,9.

So those who make up the Bridegroom's Bride were originally in Adam; Eve being the Mother of all the Living Gen. 3:20, the Church.

Adam and Eve were a picture of the Church.

Excellent, Thank God for you !

 

[beloved57]

Theres a connection of the OT Church of Christ and the NT Church of Christ seen in Rev 12

We see that Christ is the seed of that women Rev 12:1-5
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

And in oneness with the Seed of the Women was the remnant of Her Seed the Saints Rev 12:13
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
So the remnant of Her Seed is the Saints[The Church/Body of Christ] and Christ the Man Child born of Her Rev 12:5 is Her Seed!

 

[Nanja]

Theres a connection of the OT Church of Christ and the NT Church of Christ seen in Rev 12

We see that Christ is the seed of that women Rev 12:1-5
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

And in oneness with the Seed of the Women was the remnant of Her Seed the Saints Rev 12:13
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
So the remnant of Her Seed is the Saints[The Church/Body of Christ] and Christ the Man Child born of Her Rev 12:5 is Her Seed!

You are absolutely correct Brother!

The Seed of the Woman is the Body of Christ whether in Old or New Testament!

Gen. 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

Eve is the Mother of all the Living, her Seed, which is comprised of all the Elect of God Chosen in Christ from Everlasting Eph. 1:4: His Body Rom. 12:5 the Church He gave His Life for Eph. 5:25 which are Abraham's Seed and heirs according to the promise Gal. 3:16, 29!

Also, Christ is the Seed of Abraham Gal. 3:16, 29 who took on Him the Seed of Abraham Heb. 2:16.

Mat. 22:32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

So all the Elect of God, the Body of Christ, are the Seed of Abraham AKA Spiritual Israel, the only People to whom Salvation was promised.

Is. 45:17
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.


That's the Church, whether jew or gentile, the Body of Christ!

 

[beloved57]

There's a connection of the OT Church of Christ and the NT Church of Christ seen in Rev 12 pt 2

Now as Christ is the seed of the women, and the saints are as well, then Christ and the saints are One, both the seed of the women. This is to say Christ and His Body the Church are One. Heb 2:11

¹¹ For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Now this Oneness stretches back unto the OT into the NT according to the symbolism of the women in Rev 12

 

[Nanja]

There's a connection of the OT Church of Christ and the NT Church of Christ seen in Rev 12 pt 2

Now as Christ is the seed of the women, and the saints are as well, then Christ and the saints are One, both the seed of the women. This is to say Christ and His Body the Church are One. Heb 2:11

¹¹ For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Now this Oneness stretches back unto the OT into the NT according to the symbolism of the women in Rev 12

Amen Brother !

The OT and NT Saints are all One in Christ, the remnant of the Seed of the Woman in Rev. 12, the Chosen Sons of God in Christ Eph. 1:4-5; His Bride of Is. 62:5 of whom He is Head, and One with Heb. 2:11.

 

[beloved57]

Amen Brother !

The OT and NT Saints are all One in Christ, the remnant of the Seed of the Woman in Rev. 12, the Chosen Sons of God in Christ Eph. 1:4-5; His Bride of Is. 62:5 of whom He is Head, and One with Heb. 2:11.

Amen Sister !

 

[beameup]

The Church, the Body of Christ was in the Old Testament. Here its called tbe City of God Ps 46:4

There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High.

Too bad you don't know your Bible. :dunce:

Read in Paul's Epistles about the "mystery".
For example :readthis:
By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and (current) prophets in the Spirit; to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God’s grace which was given to me according to the working of His power. - Ephesians 3:4-7

 

[beloved57]

Too bad you don't know your Bible. :dunce:

Read in Paul's Epistles about the "mystery".
For example :readthis:
By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and (current) prophets in the Spirit; to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God’s grace which was given to me according to the working of His power. - Ephesians 3:4-7

No discussion just insults !

 

[beameup]

No discussion just insults !

I'll let the Apostle to the Gentiles do the discussion:

Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith - Romans 16:25

PS: ekklesia (translated as church) simply means "assembly", not "the Body of Christ".
[as in "the assembly in the wilderness" (encampment of Israel in the desert)]

 

[beloved57]

I'll let the Apostle to the Gentiles do the discussion:

Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith - Romans 16:25

PS: ekklesia (translated as church) simply means "assembly", not "the Body of Christ".
[as in "the assembly in the wilderness" (encampment of Israel in the desert)]

More worthless speech !

 

[beameup]

More worthless speech !

Here is some more:
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions. Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints - Colossians 1:24-26

 

[beloved57]

Folks the Church being a Mystery in the OT and the Church not existing in the OT are not the same. No one has denied the Mystery of the Church in the OT, but to say it didnt exist in the OT is folly, its like saying Christ didnt exist in the OT.

Just like Christ was manifested, so was the Church. John wrote that Christ was manifested here 1 Jn 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Does that mean the Son of God didnt exist prior to His being manifested ? The word here for manifested is the greek word phaneroó:

I make clear (visible, manifest), make known

properly, illumine, make manifest (visible); (figuratively) make plain, in open view; to become apparent ("graspable").

to become known, to be plainly recognized, thoroughly understood:

Its the same word in Col 1:26 regarding the Church Col 1:26

²⁶ Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Because something was hid doesnt mean it didnt exist. Even so, the NT Saints had it revealed to them that the Church existed in the OT. Rev 12 is a NT revealation.

And finally, the main element of the Mystery was that Gentiles are part of the special set apart called people of God Eph 3:4-6

⁴ Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)



⁵ Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;


⁶ That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

The Church, or the Called out Family of God was always known as the Seed of Abraham even in the OT. Its saying the Seed of Abraham didnt exist if we say the Church didnt exist in the OT, for theyre one and the same, hence Paul writes Gal 3:29

²⁹ And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Nanja]

Folks the Church being a Mystery in the OT and the Church not existing in the OT are not the same. No one has denied the Mystery of the Church in the OT, but to say it didnt exist in the OT is folly, its like saying Christ didnt exist in the OT.

Just like Christ was manifested, so was the Church. John wrote that Christ was manifested here 1 Jn 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Does that mean the Son of God didnt exist prior to His being manifested ? The word here for manifested is the greek word phaneroó:

I make clear (visible, manifest), make known

properly, illumine, make manifest (visible); (figuratively) make plain, in open view; to become apparent ("graspable").

to become known, to be plainly recognized, thoroughly understood:

Its the same word in Col 1:26 regarding the Church Col 1:26

²⁶ Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Because something was hid doesnt mean it didnt exist. Even so, the NT Saints had it revealed to them that the Church existed in the OT. Rev 12 is a NT revealation.

And finally, the main element of the Mystery was that Gentiles are part of the special set apart called people of God Eph 3:4-6

⁴ Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)



⁵ Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;


⁶ That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

The Church, or the Called out Family of God was always known as the Seed of Abraham even in the OT. Its saying the Seed of Abraham didnt exist if we say the Church didnt exist in the OT, for theyre one and the same, hence Paul writes Gal 3:29

²⁹ And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Excellent speech Brother!

Because Christ is the Seed of Abraham Gal. 3:16 it follows that His Wife whom He is One Flesh with Eph. 5:30-32 must also be the Seed of Abraham, His Brethren Heb. 2:16-17. So we can accurately deduce that Abraham an OT Saint was of the Body of Christ and of the Church seen in Rev. 12.

 

[beloved57]

Christ has always been the Head of His Body the Church, since the beginning of the World. This is seen here in Col 1:15-18

¹⁵ Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:


¹⁶ For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


¹⁷And he[Christ the Head] is before all things, and by him all things consist.


¹⁸ And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Who is the beginning ! Remember in Revelation Jesus Christ said of Himself ?

Rev 1:7-8


⁷ Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


⁸ I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


Rev 21:5-7

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Rev 22:13

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

As Hebrews presents Christ Heb 13:8

⁸Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

If Jesus Christ is the Head of His Body the Church today, Hes always been. If not, then Hes not the same, He changed !

 

[Nanja]

Christ has always been the Head of His Body the Church, since the beginning of the World. This is seen here in Col 1:15-18

¹⁵ Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:


¹⁶ For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


¹⁷And he[Christ the Head] is before all things, and by him all things consist.


¹⁸ And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Who is the beginning ! Remember in Revelation Jesus Christ said of Himself ?

Rev 1:7-8


⁷ Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


⁸ I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


Rev 21:5-7

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Rev 22:13

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

As Hebrews presents Christ Heb 13:8

⁸Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

If Jesus Christ is the Head of His Body the Church today, Hes always been. If not, then Hes not the same, He changed !

Amen Brother !

Jesus Christ as the Only Begotten Son of God, Mediator Man 1 Tim. 2:5, the firstborn of all Creation Col. 1:15, was Created with His Bride the Church in Him, to be Saviour of His Body Eph. 5:23.

Col. 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

 

[Nanja]

An OT scripture that speaks of Christ's Church, Members of His Body, which He takes Delight in, are those He made in His Image and Likeness, the ones to be conformed to His Image:

Prov. 8:31
Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Rom. 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

[beloved57]

Nanja

Jesus Christ as the Only Begotten Son of God, Mediator Man 1 Tim. 2:5, the firstborn of all Creation Col. 1:15, was Created with His Bride the Church in Him, to be Saviour of His Body Eph. 5:23.

Absolutely. He was Created or brought forth as it says in Prov 8:22

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

That word possessed is the hebrew word qanah and means:

1 get, acquire (all poetry) :
a.of God as originating, creating, קֹנֵה שָׁמַיִם וָאָרֶץ Genesis 14:19,22; Deuteronomy 32:6 (Israel), Psalm 139:13 (כִּלְֹיתָ֑י); Proverbs 8:22 ( חכמה q. v.).

So His Mediatorial Manhood as the Head of the Church His Body was Created, Originated Before the Creation of the World !

 

[Nanja]

Nanja



Absolutely. He was Created or brought forth as it says in Prov 8:22

²² The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

That word possessed is the hebrew word qanah and means:

[SIZE=+1]1[/SIZE] get, acquire (all poetry) :
[SIZE=+1]a.[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]of God as originating, creating[/SIZE], קֹנֵה שָׁמַיִם וָאָרֶץ Genesis 14:19,22; Deuteronomy 32:6 (Israel), Psalm 139:13 (כִּלְֹיתָ֑י); Proverbs 8:22 ( חכמה q. v.).

So His Mediatorial Manhood as the Head of the Church His Body was Created, Originated Before the Creation of the World !

Most definitely !

The Lord Jesus Christ was Created before the world began as Mediator Man, and as the Head of His Body, His Wife [His Eve] the Church. And as the Last Adam, was made a Surety Heb. 7:22 and quickening spirit 1 Cor. 15:45 for Her: All the Members of His Body He died for and Eternally Justified as their Covenant Head and Saviour.

 

[beloved57]

Most definitely !

The Lord Jesus Christ was Created before the world began as Mediator Man, and as the Head of His Body, His Wife [His Eve] the Church. And as the Last Adam, was made a Surety Heb. 7:22 and quickening spirit 1 Cor. 15:45 for Her: All the Members of His Body He died for and Eternally Justified as their Covenant Head and Saviour.

Amen! As with most truth u and i agree on, we'll be the Lone Ranger on this one !