The call me Fearless...

[Fearlessly Express]

Allow me to introduce myself. They call me Fearless, FE for short, and I rather enjoy a good debate. By good debate I mean to say that the debate is centered on facts, uses cogent logic, and is a reasonable and lively discussion. Manners of course are a two way street, and I assure you I will have them in all due respect.

That being said allow me to tell a little about myself. I was raised Southern Baptist but now call myself an agnostic atheist. It's been an interesting if difficult journey of self discovery that finds myself in my present circumstance.

That being said I hope this forum will provide some entertaining and enlightening discussion on one of my favorite topics, that being theology of course.

With Pleasure,
Fearlessly Expressive

 

[Thunder's Muse]

Welcome

 

[Fearlessly Express]

Welcome

Thank you.

 

[glorydaz]

Allow me to introduce myself. They call me Fearless, FE for short, and I rather enjoy a good debate. By good debate I mean to say that the debate is centered on facts, uses cogent logic, and is a reasonable and lively discussion. Manners of course are a two way street, and I assure you I will have them in all due respect.

That being said allow me to tell a little about myself. I was raised Southern Baptist but now call myself an agnostic atheist. It's been an interesting if difficult journey of self discovery that finds myself in my present circumstance.

That being said I hope this forum will provide some entertaining and enlightening discussion on one of my favorite topics, that being theology of course.

With Pleasure,
Fearlessly Expressive

Welcome to the forum, Fearless. But I'm wondering why you would care to discuss something you don't believe in. It wouldn't be to undermine the faith of others, I hope.

 

[Lon]

Welcome. Being Southern Baptist, I can see reactionary in your polarization. We have an eclectic congregation and I think such is both good and bad. I like the 'all welcome' but there are a few pastors, if I were leading, I'd oust. If, through conversation, I can swing your pendulum back (not necessarily to Southern Baptists), It'd be my pleasure to serve. I do see almost all atheists/agnostics from a church abuse background as reactionary rather than natural selection. I lean toward Pavlovian/Skinner and believe man's environment greatly affects him/her and some with particular personality traits, more than others.

Welcome to TOL

-Lon

 

[Fearlessly Express]

Welcome to the forum, Fearless. But I'm wondering why you would care to discuss something you don't believe in. It wouldn't be to undermine the faith of others, I hope.

Theology exists whether or not god does, and has an impact on the real world. You need look no further than the New York skyline for proof of that. Frankly I don't think that I would be able to do so even if I tried in much the same way I doubt any of you will change my mind, but I do enjoy debating the points and hearing what others have to say on the subject. I enjoy good conversation, and theology interests me on a very personal level.

If I am able to undermine someone's faith, then I would say that their faith was not very strong to begin with and that would not be my fault, but again I doubt it will happen and it is not why I am here I assure you.

Welcome. Being Southern Baptist, I can see reactionary in your polarization. We have an eclectic congregation and I think such is both good and bad. I like the 'all welcome' but there are a few pastors, if I were leading, I'd oust. If, through conversation, I can swing your pendulum back (not necessarily to Southern Baptists), It'd be my pleasure to serve. I do see almost all atheists/agnostics from a church abuse background as reactionary rather than natural selection. I lean toward Pavlovian/Skinner and believe man's environment greatly affects him/her and some with particular personality traits, more than others.

Welcome to TOL

-Lon

No, I wasn't abused and I am not jaded. I became an atheist through introspection and critical inquiry of myself, what I believe, and why? One of the pivotal things that swayed my doubt is having read the bible itself from cover to cover on numerous occasions. Ah, yes, the old nature vs. nurture argument. It has always been my nature to be critical, and I was able to overcome the nurture. LoLz

 

[Yorzhik]

Allow me to introduce myself. They call me Fearless, FE for short, and I rather enjoy a good debate. By good debate I mean to say that the debate is centered on facts, uses cogent logic, and is a reasonable and lively discussion. Manners of course are a two way street, and I assure you I will have them in all due respect.

That being said allow me to tell a little about myself. I was raised Southern Baptist but now call myself an agnostic atheist. It's been an interesting if difficult journey of self discovery that finds myself in my present circumstance.

That being said I hope this forum will provide some entertaining and enlightening discussion on one of my favorite topics, that being theology of course.

With Pleasure,
Fearlessly Expressive

Welcome.

In the interest of debate, the nature of God is considered to have different properties. Which properties of God do you defend?

 

[Dena]

Hello and Welcome

 

[glorydaz]

Theology exists whether or not god does, and has an impact on the real world. You need look no further than the New York skyline for proof of that. Frankly I don't think that I would be able to do so even if I tried in much the same way I doubt any of you will change my mind, but I do enjoy debating the points and hearing what others have to say on the subject. I enjoy good conversation, and theology interests me on a very personal level.

If I am able to undermine someone's faith, then I would say that their faith was not very strong to begin with and that would not be my fault, but again I doubt it will happen and it is not why I am here I assure you.



No, I wasn't abused and I am not jaded. I became an atheist through introspection and critical inquiry of myself, what I believe, and why? One of the pivotal things that swayed my doubt is having read the bible itself from cover to cover on numerous occasions. Ah, yes, the old nature vs. nurture argument. It has always been my nature to be critical, and I was able to overcome the nurture. LoLz

I'm glad to hear you've not come to undermine anyone's faith. However, there are babes in Christ who may begin to worry without reason, so you can expect to be challenged if you go too far afield.

I'm surprised, having read the Bible so many times, that you haven't seen how God has a permissive Will which means He does not condone any of the behaviours you mentioned. Would you like to address that slander you have made against your Creator?

 

[steko]

Welcome to TOL.

 

[Fearlessly Express]

Welcome.

In the interest of debate, the nature of God is considered to have different properties. Which properties of God do you defend?

None at all. I do not assert god exists to begin with, and as such have no working definition to defend.

Hello and Welcome

Thank you.

 

[Lon]

One of the pivotal things that swayed my doubt is having read the bible itself from cover to cover on numerous occasions. Ah, yes, the old nature vs. nurture argument. It has always been my nature to be critical, and I was able to overcome the nurture. LoLz

Unfortunately, I see you as 'settling' not 'critically thinking.' Forgive my arrogance (I'm a school teacher and this is my strength/weakness) but I believe there are answers and you didn't find them. You will find them here, whether you pay attention to them or not.

 

[Fearlessly Express]

I'm glad to hear you've not come to undermine anyone's faith. However, there are babes in Christ who may begin to worry without reason, so you can expect to be challenged if you go too far afield.

I enjoy a good challenge.

I'm surprised, having read the Bible so many times, that you haven't seen how God has a permissive Will which means He does not condone any of the behaviours you mentioned. Would you like to address that slander you have made against your Creator?

If you are referring to the thread I posted, please direct your question there. Not that I am afraid of answering your charges, I just don't want to debate the points on two different threads.

Welcome to TOL.

Thank you.

 

[Fearlessly Express]

Unfortunately, I see you as 'settling' not 'critically thinking.' Forgive my arrogance (I'm a school teacher and this is my strength/weakness) but I believe there are answers and you didn't find them. You will find them here, whether you pay attention to them or not.

Perhaps you think so, but then you don't really have enough information to make such a judgement of me, do you? All is forgiven though.

We'll see.

 

[Lon]

Perhaps you think so, but then you don't really have enough information to make such a judgement of me, do you? All is forgiven though.

We'll see.

It is a general observation as well as a comparison to what "I have found."
I don't honestly believe agnostics and atheists who have used this excuse have ever really and necessarily wrestled enough. It is an exhausting exercise, I did it, and I am stubborn. The NT and Jesus were too precious to me to abandon unless reason forsook me and disallowed. So, having wrestled very hard, yes, I think you didn't 'critical think' enough.
The best things in life are worth fighting for. Settle and quit aren't in my immediate or mid-ranged vocabulary, and even then I'm going the extra 20 miles.

So yes, I immediately know a little bit about you and a whole lot about me having come to the exact opposite conclusion as you. So, I know myself enough to make a few bold assertions that will indeed prove true. It is a topical assessment more than your particular but I already said I see a lot of both nature but more nurture behind these things.

 

[Yorzhik]

None at all. I do not assert god exists to begin with, and as such have no working definition to defend.

I doubt that, yet what you say is a perfectly valid answer. There is no easy way to expose what you defend about God with your guard up. So I guess we'll have to chair this discussion for now. I just needed to get you on the record.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

 

[resurrected]

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom

 

[Fearlessly Express]

It is a general observation as well as a comparison to what "I have found."
I don't honestly believe agnostics and atheists who have used this excuse have ever really and necessarily wrestled enough. It is an exhausting exercise, I did it, and I am stubborn. The NT and Jesus were too precious to me to abandon unless reason forsook me and disallowed. So, having wrestled very hard, yes, I think you didn't 'critical think' enough.
The best things in life are worth fighting for. Settle and quit aren't in my immediate or mid-ranged vocabulary, and even then I'm going the extra 20 miles.

So yes, I immediately know a little bit about you and a whole lot about me having come to the exact opposite conclusion as you. So, I know myself enough to make a few bold assertions that will indeed prove true. It is a topical assessment more than your particular but I already said I see a lot of both nature but more nurture behind these things.

While you are making bold assumption of me without much actual knowledge of my own personal struggle I will only point out one fact of myself that you may not realize.

I want to believe. I want there to be a god of love and justice who will pay evil for evil and good for good. I want there to be a heaven, and want absolute justice to be served. It's a comforting way to think of things, but in practical terms there is no way of knowing for certain. Not at the moment at an rate.

You cannot and do not know how I struggled to justify and rationalize my faith against the facts of the world unfolding around me. To assert otherwise is an exercise in arrogance.

I doubt that, yet what you say is a perfectly valid answer. There is no easy way to expose what you defend about God with your guard up. So I guess we'll have to chair this discussion for now. I just needed to get you on the record.

If you say so.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom

Knowledge is power, wisdom is knowledge in practice.

 

[resurrected]

in the future, don't fear proofreading your thread title before hitting "submit new thread"

 

[steko]

you shouldn't fear proofreading your thread title before hitting "submit new thread"

That's a good way of wording it, but you should have capitalized 'You' and also placed a period or exclamation point at the end of the sentence.