The Big Difference Between You And Me

[Squeaky]

Nonsense. The verses you posted show that our fleshly nature has desires contrary to the Spirit. They don't say the Spirit has no desire or emotion.

Throughout the scripture God is joyful, grieving, angry, loving, jealous, compassionate. He has emotions, and made us likewise. The problem is not emotion, it's unredeemed (fallen) emotion.

I said
lol Didn't you even read this verse. It appears you don't know the difference between emotions and affections.

Gal 5:17

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

 

[DavidK]

I said
lol Didn't you even read this verse. It appears you don't know the difference between emotions and affections.

I did. I had forgotten about that particular construct of yours, the emotion/affection thing. So God's righteous anger is an "affection", but man's unrighteous wrath is an "emotion". In other words, you've redefined words to say what the rest of us would say as "there is fleshly emotion, and Godly emotion".

It's just a play with words that confuses, rather than clarifies.

Gal 5:17

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

The word translated "lusts" here is "epithumeo".

ἐπιθυμέω
epithumeō
ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o
From G1909 and G2372; to set the heart upon, that is, long for (rightfully or otherwise): - covet, desire, would fain, lust (after).

It is used in the sense of negative desire, covetousness, and lust in Matthew 5:28, Acts 20:33, Romans 7:7, Romans 13:9, 1 Co 10:6, James 4:2, and in the sense of desireing death out of despair in Rev 9:6.

In Luke 15:16 and Luke 16:21 it's used in a neutral way for the prodigal son and Lazarus who are both hungry and desiring even the basest food because of their state.

But it's used in a very righteous sense in Matthew 13:17 (the righteous desire to see the Kingdom), Luk 17:22 (the desire to have Jesus walking among them again), 1 Timothy 3:1 (the desire to do a good work as an overseer in the Body), Hebrews 6:11 (the desire to see the beilevers to be diligent in the faith), and 1 Peter 1:12 (the desire angel's have to look into the grace extended to men). Even our Lord Jesus felt this emotion! Luke 22:15

You point to Galatians 5:17 as evidence that emotions are against the Spirit, but miss the context of all scripture that "epithumeo" is not of the flesh or of the Spirit. The Spirit desires, as does the flesh. The problem is where that emotion is pointed, not the emotion itself.

You don't even need the rest of scripture to see that. It's contained within Galatians 5:17 itself.

"Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh;"

This sentence has two clauses. In the first, "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit," has the verb translated "lust". The second, "and the Spirit against the flesh," implies a verb. What is the verb implied in that clause?

 

[Squeaky]

I did. I had forgotten about that particular construct of yours, the emotion/affection thing. So God's righteous anger is an "affection", but man's unrighteous wrath is an "emotion". In other words, you've redefined words to say what the rest of us would say as "there is fleshly emotion, and Godly emotion".

It's just a play with words that confuses, rather than clarifies.



The word translated "lusts" here is "epithumeo".

ἐπιθυμέω
epithumeō
ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o
From G1909 and G2372; to set the heart upon, that is, long for (rightfully or otherwise): - covet, desire, would fain, lust (after).

It is used in the sense of negative desire, covetousness, and lust in Matthew 5:28, Acts 20:33, Romans 7:7, Romans 13:9, 1 Co 10:6, James 4:2, and in the sense of desireing death out of despair in Rev 9:6.

In Luke 15:16 and Luke 16:21 it's used in a neutral way for the prodigal son and Lazarus who are both hungry and desiring even the basest food because of their state.

But it's used in a very righteous sense in Matthew 13:17 (the righteous desire to see the Kingdom), Luk 17:22 (the desire to have Jesus walking among them again), 1 Timothy 3:1 (the desire to do a good work as an overseer in the Body), Hebrews 6:11 (the desire to see the beilevers to be diligent in the faith), and 1 Peter 1:12 (the desire angel's have to look into the grace extended to men). Even our Lord Jesus felt this emotion! Luke 22:15

You point to Galatians 5:17 as evidence that emotions are against the Spirit, but miss the context of all scripture that "epithumeo" is not of the flesh or of the Spirit. The Spirit desires, as does the flesh. The problem is where that emotion is pointed, not the emotion itself.

You don't even need the rest of scripture to see that. It's contained within Galatians 5:17 itself.

"Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh;"

This sentence has two clauses. In the first, "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit," has the verb translated "lust". The second, "and the Spirit against the flesh," implies a verb. What is the verb implied in that clause?

I said
lol That is a play with words.

Gal 5:16
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:17
For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Gal 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Gal 5:24
And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

5:25
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.


And it breaks all the rules of believing. Not to think beyond what is written.

1Co 4:6
Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.

 

[DavidK]

I said
lol That is a play with words.

Gal 5:16
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:17
For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Gal 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Gal 5:24
And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

5:25
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.


And it breaks all the rules of believing. Not to think beyond what is written.

1Co 4:6
Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.

I'm not playing with words. In Galatians 5:17, the flesh lusts against the Spirit. What does the Spirit do against the flesh?

I'm not looking beyond what is written, I'm asking what you see written there.

 

[Squeaky]

It's just a play with words that confuses, rather than clarifies.



The word translated "lusts" here is "epithumeo".

ἐπιθυμέω
epithumeō
ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o
From G1909 and G2372; to set the heart upon, that is, long for (rightfully or otherwise): - covet, desire, would fain, lust (after).

I'm not playing with words. In Galatians 5:17, the flesh lusts against the Spirit. What does the Spirit do against the flesh?

I'm not looking beyond what is written, I'm asking what you see written there.

The Holy Spirit only quotes verses. He will never work through your emotions.

Gal 5:16

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:17

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

5:18

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

[DavidK]

It's just a play with words that confuses, rather than clarifies.



The word translated "lusts" here is "epithumeo".

ἐπιθυμέω
epithumeō
ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o
From G1909 and G2372; to set the heart upon, that is, long for (rightfully or otherwise): - covet, desire, would fain, lust (after).




The Holy Spirit only quotes verses. He will never work through your emotions.

Gal 5:16

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:17

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

5:18

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

You're avoiding my question.

If I say, "I war with my neighbor, and he with me.", what is he doing to me?

 

[Squeaky]

You're avoiding my question.

If I say, "I war with my neighbor, and he with me.", what is he doing to me?

I said
I don't see a question. I went back and looked what was the question?

 

[DavidK]

I said
I don't see a question. I went back and looked what was the question?

My question is, if I say, "I war with my neighbor, and he with me," what am I saying he's doing to me?

 

[Squeaky]

My question is, if I say, "I war with my neighbor, and he with me," what am I saying he's doing to me?

I said
he doesn't have to be doing anything to you. Some people war with words.

 

[DavidK]

I said
he doesn't have to be doing anything to you. Some people war with words.

You're avoiding the question.

What I'm going for here, is that when we leave out the verb in the second clause, we know it means that it's because the first verb applies. "I war with my neighbor, and he with me" is saying "I war with my neighbor, and he [wars] with me." The second clause is understood in context of the first.

When scripture says "the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh" it is clearly saying the Spirit lusts against the flesh. The Spirit is engaging in an equal and opposite emotion, desire, against the flesh.

 

[Squeaky]

You're avoiding the question.

What I'm going for here, is that when we leave out the verb in the second clause, we know it means that it's because the first verb applies. "I war with my neighbor, and he with me" is saying "I war with my neighbor, and he [wars] with me." The second clause is understood in context of the first.

When scripture says "the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh" it is clearly saying the Spirit lusts against the flesh. The Spirit is engaging in an equal and opposite emotion, desire, against the flesh.

I said
I'm sorry but your away out in left field with that. The Holy Spirit doesn't have any emotions against the flesh. The Holy Spirit gently quotes us the verses. He never speaks on His own authority.

Jhn 14:26

“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

Jas 3:17

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.

 

[DavidK]

I said
I'm sorry but your away out in left field with that. The Holy Spirit doesn't have any emotions against the flesh. The Holy Spirit gently quotes us the verses. He never speaks on His own authority.

I'll try one more time, but I expect you to not actually answer the question.

In Galatians 5:17, what is the verb implied in the second clause?

 

[Squeaky]

I'll try one more time, but I expect you to not actually answer the question.

In Galatians 5:17, what is the verb implied in the second clause?

I said
lol I wouldn't know a verb from a fence post. I didn't come in here with verbs, and nouns and all that. I just came in here demonstrating the Holy Spirit.

1Co 2:2
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

1Co 2:3

I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.

1Co 2:4

And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,

1Co 2:5

that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

 

[DavidK]

I said
lol I wouldn't know a verb from a fence post. I didn't come in here with verbs, and nouns and all that. I just came in here demonstrating the Holy Spirit.

A verb is the action word in a sentence. In the sentence, "I argued with Bob," the word "argued" is the verb.

In "The flesh lusts against the Spirit," the verb is "lusts".

In "and the Spirit against the flesh," there is no verb. Since you can't have a sentence without a verb, there has to be one implied.

If I write "I argued with Bob, and he with me" anyone who can read English will realize that not only did I argue with Bob, but he argued with me.

God bless you, Squeaky.

 

[Squeaky]

A verb is the action word in a sentence. In the sentence, "I argued with Bob," the word "argued" is the verb.

In "The flesh lusts against the Spirit," the verb is "lusts".

In "and the Spirit against the flesh," there is no verb. Since you can't have a sentence without a verb, there has to be one implied.

If I write "I argued with Bob, and he with me" anyone who can read English will realize that not only did I argue with Bob, but he argued with me.

God bless you, Squeaky.

I said
you seem to have a lot of rules for yourself. None of them rules apply in scripture. Broomhilda my X used to argue with me, but I never argued back. The flesh lusts against the Spirit (emotions) but the Spirit was against the emotions with verses.
Again none of your English class learning will help you in scripture

 

[DavidK]

I said
you seem to have a lot of rules for yourself. None of them rules apply in scripture. Broomhilda my X used to argue with me, but I never argued back. The flesh lusts against the Spirit (emotions) but the Spirit was against the emotions with verses.
Again none of your English class learning will help you in scripture

It doesn't take any English class learning. Any native speaker would read the sentence that way.

That's okay, though. You have special revelation from the Holy Spirit that He hasn't given to anyone else in the history of 2000 years of the Church. Which should be a warning sign.

 

[Squeaky]

It doesn't take any English class learning. Any native speaker would read the sentence that way.

That's okay, though. You have special revelation from the Holy Spirit that He hasn't given to anyone else in the history of 2000 years of the Church. Which should be a warning sign.

I said
lol How young, how inexperienced. I trade revelations with others, we share them together.

 

[DavidK]

I said
lol How young, how inexperienced. I trade revelations with others, we share them together.

Of course. How could I have thought otherwise.

 

[Squeaky]

Of course. How could I have thought otherwise.

I said
lol That sounds like someone who assumes they know it all.

 

[DavidK]

I said
lol That sounds like someone who assumes they know it all.

The opposite. I'm someone who realized I made an assumption in error.