ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
not sure why you're so fixated on the age of the writings - I doubt anybody would argue against the value of homer, plato, aristotle, socrates
The bible is man-made.
- Thread starter Atheist19
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not sure why you're so fixated on the age of the writings - I doubt anybody would argue against the value of homer, plato, aristotle, socrates
I'm not. That's why I posted this just after that: "I'm not too concerned with the timing, you may be right. The point I was making was that they lived in a time of ignorance, and couldn't logically explain the world around them, so they turned to religion."
jsanford108
New member
Hello friend. Thanks for letting me know of this thread. I feel it will be a little more productive here, since you are the OP.
First off, I know that many Christians will approach your arguments with the phrase, "you are taking it out of context," and for the most part, I agree with that statement. We can pour over your examples, with me pointing out the context of the passage vs the "twisting" of the verses (I do not think that your intention is malicious or twisting, only that the information and "facts" you have been given are). In my opinion, this would be counterproductive since a reasonable person such as yourself would see me as arguing from the Bible, when it is the very source we are debating.
So rather than that, let us discuss the notion and idea of a God. I will let you lead this discussion where you want it to go, and where you feel it would be most productive.
To give a brief summation of my views:
1.) the Bible (when disused with anti-theists) should be viewed as a history book first and a religious book second.
2.) I have work and study in the field of Biology. So many young earth theorists and the like do not like me, because I ascribe to the notion that any theory should be supported by evidence, and if evidence disproves a theory, that theory should be discarded (I have had too many young earth theory debates as is. They select certain verses of Scripture and take it strictly literal, but deny the same weight of others. A little hypocritical if you ask me)
3.) I was a baptist. Reading and studying the Bible made me Catholic.
4.) I am well versed in theology and philosophy. Biology, chemistry, and physics. I am limited on subjects outside of those fields, just due to my specialization. The study of history, philosophy, and theology were all done briefly in undergrad, but expanded in my own free time.
As I said, lead us to your desired questions and points.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
First off, I know that many Christians will approach your arguments with the phrase, "you are taking it out of context," and for the most part, I agree with that statement. We can pour over your examples, with me pointing out the context of the passage vs the "twisting" of the verses (I do not think that your intention is malicious or twisting, only that the information and "facts" you have been given are). In my opinion, this would be counterproductive since a reasonable person such as yourself would see me as arguing from the Bible, when it is the very source we are debating.
So rather than that, let us discuss the notion and idea of a God. I will let you lead this discussion where you want it to go, and where you feel it would be most productive.
To give a brief summation of my views:
1.) the Bible (when disused with anti-theists) should be viewed as a history book first and a religious book second.
2.) I have work and study in the field of Biology. So many young earth theorists and the like do not like me, because I ascribe to the notion that any theory should be supported by evidence, and if evidence disproves a theory, that theory should be discarded (I have had too many young earth theory debates as is. They select certain verses of Scripture and take it strictly literal, but deny the same weight of others. A little hypocritical if you ask me)
3.) I was a baptist. Reading and studying the Bible made me Catholic.
4.) I am well versed in theology and philosophy. Biology, chemistry, and physics. I am limited on subjects outside of those fields, just due to my specialization. The study of history, philosophy, and theology were all done briefly in undergrad, but expanded in my own free time.
As I said, lead us to your desired questions and points.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
homer, plato, aristotle, socrates lived in the same sort of times
most men do
many still do
and the Bible is about so much more than religion, which is why it has endured
Friend,
I could blow your socks off if we were not infighting. There are things that testify of God that are in the news and before our very eyes. I would enjoy getting your opinion on the matter, because you read it as a book and discern literal character and plot development from it.... verses dogmatic bias.
Answer me back if you want to jump down a little rabbit hole for a bit.
- Evil.Eye.<(I)>
:chuckle:
Well said. Truth smack at its finest.
I believe atheism is man made, to me it quite obviously is. The laughable tales about the existence of an earth, sun, thousands of stars..............that could be the product of "chance," by accident, all point to the the rantings of atheists driven by anti-thinking, disbelief, mysticism, fear of authority, ignorant men in the "I am a god" age.
So there.
Fun!
Wow! How long did it take you to Google that "You won't answer my questions...Wa..Wa...Wa...!!!!"? Weighty. I understand exactly what you are saying-heard it before-you act like all us Acts 4:13 KJV hillbilly, country bumpkins members of the body of Christ are just stunned by this thread, being bewildered. Teach us. Please? Save it...
Chapter, verse, where I am required to answer any/all questions, especially trap questions, from dishonest seekers, such as yourself.
I'm extremely new here, so I'm not sure what "OP" is. Also, nothing I say is meant to be read as "malicious", I am sorry if it seems that way, I truly do not mean it to be.
I believe that there could be a god, but as of now I haven't seen enough evidence to convince me that there is one. I am fairly confident that if there is a god, that it almost certainly isn't the god of the bible. There are too many errors, contradictions, and fables for me to believe that. Let me ask you, do you believe the literal word of the bible? If not, how exactly do you view the bible?
Ask Mr. Religion
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Enduring Uniqueness of Scripture
Enduring Uniqueness of Scripture
No book, comprising 66 “mini-books”, written over a period of 1500 years by 40 vastly different authors, possessing an outstanding literary internal consistency and coherency, could be written by man alone. An astonishing 668 prophecies have been fulfilled and none have ever been proven false.
Add to that the survival of the book’s ancient manuscripts, numbering in the tens of thousands over thousands of years, and yet these manuscripts remain over 98% textually pure. How this possible, when compared to all the other ancient writings are so few in number?
For instance, the Dead Sea Scrolls contain all books of the Old Testament, except Esther, and have been dated to before the time of Christ. The earliest copy of Homer's Iliad dates to 500 BC, some 500 years after it was written. Only 643 copies of Illiad exist. Now consider Julius Caesar’s Gallic Wars. Only 10 copies, written about 1,000 years after the event are in existence. In comparison, there are over 24,000+ New Testament manuscripts, the earliest one dating to within 24 years after Christ. How can we objectively and rationally explain this book, the Bible, especially in light of the claims made above?
AMR
Enduring Uniqueness of Scripture
Endured is an understatement when compared to the works of Homer, et al.
No book, comprising 66 “mini-books”, written over a period of 1500 years by 40 vastly different authors, possessing an outstanding literary internal consistency and coherency, could be written by man alone. An astonishing 668 prophecies have been fulfilled and none have ever been proven false.
Add to that the survival of the book’s ancient manuscripts, numbering in the tens of thousands over thousands of years, and yet these manuscripts remain over 98% textually pure. How this possible, when compared to all the other ancient writings are so few in number?
For instance, the Dead Sea Scrolls contain all books of the Old Testament, except Esther, and have been dated to before the time of Christ. The earliest copy of Homer's Iliad dates to 500 BC, some 500 years after it was written. Only 643 copies of Illiad exist. Now consider Julius Caesar’s Gallic Wars. Only 10 copies, written about 1,000 years after the event are in existence. In comparison, there are over 24,000+ New Testament manuscripts, the earliest one dating to within 24 years after Christ. How can we objectively and rationally explain this book, the Bible, especially in light of the claims made above?
AMR
I appreciate the time you've taken to waste mine, but if you aren't going to say anything worth while I'm simply going to stop responding to you.
I'd love to discuss this with you!
Translated: I, the atheist, whose main problem is heart related, not a brain problem, and a problem of resistance to authority, will waste my time, spending countless hours of my life, attempting to "prove" that something does not exist.
It is called logging in, and losing your mind....
I gather you are an informed individual who has read through scripture and possibly even had it crammed down your throat at one point in your life... correct me if I'm wrong.
My point is... may I cite plot and characters that span the expansive history of the book that was started with Moses? All from a literary perspective... void of car salesman hockey?
God tolerated slavery because that is how the world worked. It is the only reason civilization even exists, because people were otherwise just killing each other.
The fact is that you atheists have no insight on anything. You simply hate Christianity because it tells you what you do is wrong, so you go and pick up a Bible and try to find fault in it.
"I wasn't around to see it so therefore it didn't happen"
Pretty much
You believe a woman can be born in a man's body, and then snarl at the idea of the Creator being able to do things you cannot.
"Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel." - that's one of many failed prophecies of the bible. If you want more you can look up "failed prophecies of the bible" and you will find hundreds.
I do read through scripture quite often. I wouldn't say it was really crammed down my throat, I accepted it at first, but as I grew, it seemed less and less realistic.
And cite whatever you like!
2 Timothy 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Exodus 21:16 "He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death.
1 Timothy 1:10
for the sexually immoral, for homosexuals, for slave traders and liars and perjurers, and for anyone else who is averse to sound teaching
Don't believe websites filled with lies. Actually read the bible yourself. God doesnt condone the type of slavery you mention in fact speaks against it, the only 'slavery' condoned by God was the indentured servitude type. Where a person sells themselves (labor) to pay debts and then there were specific guidelines and time periods.
The hebrews were placed into bondage as slaves themselves for not following Gods ideal.
Seek God at the source, nothing else that anyone else says will matter.