The Bible Fact of Different Gospels

[JudgeRightly]

Clearly. Did you know that blinders on horses keep them from seeing things that might scare them?

Indeed.

And?

Don’t read James or Peter or Hebrews, or Jude, and most of all, don’t pay any heed to the Gospels, since Jesus only came to the lost sheep of Israel.

Where have I or anyone else ever said "Don't read James, Peter, Hebrews, Jude" or "don't pay any heed to the Gospels"?!

All we have ever said is that you shouldn't ignore what is written within the context of what is written.

For example:

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 15:24 - New King James Version

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

www.biblegateway.com

Don't sweep His words under the rug just because it doesn't quite line up with what you believe.

Clearly that was taken out of context and used inappropriately.

In what way are His words taken out of context, on my position?

Your position is your opinion of what the Bible says.

Right back atcha!

Failing to rightly understand what is written is the problem.

INDEED!

James is the perfect example.

Agreed!

You know what I’m talking about.

Make the argument. I cannot read your mind.

If we weren’t tied to a particular doctrine, we might find more hidden truths.

Right back at you!

Do you see the rabbit or the duck?

Are you willing to consider that there IS a duck, and not just a rabbit? Because if you're not, then you're guilty of the very thing you just said. You are tied to a particular doctrine, preventing yourself from finding more hidden truths.

Things the Lord opens to our eyes. It happens all the time in a believer’s life. Those ahha moments when reading the word, and a new and deeper meaning opens up, and you thank the Lord for His truth. You know what I’m talking about.

No one has said otherwise.

Too much rightly dividing can be taken to an extreme.

You cannot "rightly" divide "too much."

You either rightly divide or you don't.

If you don't rightly divide, you will have a hard time understanding what Scripture says.

If you do rightly divide Scripture, then every verse in the Bible becomes a proof-text for your position.

I'm telling you right now, every verse in the Bible is a proof-text for my position. I don't have any problem texts.

And I've pointed out a HUGE problem text for your position, that being that either Paul was lying when he said there is neither Jew nor Greek in the Body of Christ.

Compartmentalizing things to such a degree there is no room left for growth. That depth must include not only the prophets and apostles (plural), but the ongoing revelations by the Holy Spirit and the Living Word of God. Those that lead us back, once again, to the apostles (Gospels) and the prophets.

Again, no one on my side of the issue has ever said you should "compartmentalize" the scriptures to the point where you are not receiving edification by it.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

Alright, the way you phrased that makes it clear where we differ.

And the way I phrased it before in multiple previous posts did not?

God didn’t put a “separation of Israel from the Gentile nations”,

Wrong.

‘You shall therefore keep all My statutes and all My judgments, and perform them, that the land where I am bringing you to dwell may not vomit you out. And you shall not walk in the statutes of the nation which I am casting out before you; for they commit all these things, and therefore I abhor them. But I have said to you, “You shall inherit their land, and I will give it to you to possess, a land flowing with milk and honey.” I am the Lord your God, who has separated you from the peoples. You shall therefore distinguish between clean animals and unclean, between unclean birds and clean, and you shall not make yourselves abominable by beast or by bird, or by any kind of living thing that creeps on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. And you shall be holy to Me, for I the Lord am holy, and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be Mine.

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 20:22-26 - New King James Version

‘You shall therefore keep all My statutes and all My judgments, and perform them, that the land where I am bringing you to dwell may not vomit you out. And you shall not walk in the statutes of the nation which I am casting out before you; for they commit all these things, and therefore I abhor...

www.biblegateway.com

unless you didn’t mean it that way.

I meant exactly what I said.

God separated Israel from the Gentile nations, so that He would be their God, and they would be His people.

He added the gentiles to the Olive Tree,

After cutting off the natural branch. Not before.

which is believing Israel.

No.

The Olive Tree, in Paul's analogy, represents ALL of Israel. Or, more specifically, the branches do. An olive tree doesn't have much of a central trunk, like we normally think of trees. If you google "olive tree" you'll see what I'm saying.

Romans 11:And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olivetree;​

It would help when studying the Bible, that you use a version that uses modern English, so that you can more easily understand what is being said.

Oh, and let's also not ignore the context of what is said:

I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them,When I take away their sins.” Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 11:17-32 - New King James Version

And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root...

www.biblegateway.com

The Trunk of the olive tree is Christ.

The wild branches were grafted in among the natural branches, because we are all in Christ.

I know what would feel right, and so far it’s scarce around here. 🥹

What is right isn't a matter of "feelings," GD.

Psalms 133:1. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

AMEN!

You’re such a silly man, but funny, too. Kinda confirms my bias.

I'm not surprised that you are unable to rebut what I said.

What do you think Jesus meant when He said Abraham looked forward to His day?

Book, chapter, verse, please?

And, what is this? Talk of a coming Saviour is all throughout the Bible.

Isaiah 45: 21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none of other.

A Messiah who would rescue Israel from captivity, from the hostile nations, who would establish His kingdom, and build it up (cf Jeremiah 18).

Psalm 22 gives some graphic details of Messiah’s death. Coincidence?

Psalm 22 is David crying out to God. Within the immediate context, it's all about David, but David never actually (at least, to my knowledge) experienced the things he wrote about in that Psalm. But it points to Christ, because God inspired David to write it.

Yes, we can see now that what David said was used by God as if it were prophecy, even though it technically was not.

Just like the passage which Judas Iscariot fulfilled wasn't a prophecy in and of itself, but was fulfilled as though it were.

 

[Clete]

Then what do you think Jesus meant when He said Abraham looked forward to His day? and David.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.​

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Acts 2:25. For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:​

What I just said is what Jesus meant. Christ's death and resurrection is what made salvation possible for everyone, including Abraham but Abraham was not aware of that being God's plan. Abraham believed God when God told him that he would have a son and that belief was credited to him as righteousness. It was God who was looking ahead to the sacrifice that would be made, not Abraham, nor anyone else prior the actual events of Calvary. Events, as you point out, that were definitely prophesied but not in an avert way where the contemporary readers of passages like Psalms 22 or Isaiah 53 would have understood to be speaking of a suffering Messiah. Indeed, those specific events would not have needed to even happen as described in those passages precisely because they were not given as prophecy in the way we in the west think of prophetic statements. God orchestrated the events of Calvary to parallel those passages and by doing so turned those passages into prophecies. Had the events turned out differently, no one would point to them as failed prophecies because they wouldn't even be considered prophecies at all. In Psalms 22, David is speaking of his own experience and in Isaiah 53 the subject is an unidentified "Servant of the Lord", the latter of which it seems obvious to us today that God intended to foreshadow the events of Calvary but the point is that it wouldn't have been obvious to anyone prior to those events unfolding and it certainly was not required to believe in a Messiah who would die for everyone's sins in order to be saved. That was not preached as a required component of our faith prior to Paul's ministry.

 

[Clete]

Do they have lamb?

I don't think so. I think its usually beef and things like chicken soup and salads and of course, plenty of wine.

 

[Right Divider]

It seems that the AMG (anti-multiple gospel) people completely missed the point of the OP.

The point, AGAIN, is that you cannot preach Paul's gospel without the DEATH of Christ.
Whereas, the gospel of the kingdom does not require such.
Therefore, they cannot be identical.

Again, the idea that there is but a single gospel in the Bible is completely absurd.

 

[glorydaz]

What I just said is what Jesus meant. Christ's death and resurrection is what made salvation possible for everyone, including Abraham but Abraham was not aware of that being God's plan. Abraham believed God when God told him that he would have a son and that belief was credited to him as righteousness. It was God who was looking ahead to the sacrifice that would be made, not Abraham, nor anyone else prior the actual events of Calvary. Events, as you point out, that were definitely prophesied but not in an avert way where the contemporary readers of passages like Psalms 22 or Isaiah 53 would have understood to be speaking of a suffering Messiah. Indeed, those specific events would not have needed to even happen as described in those passages precisely because they were not given as prophecy in the way we in the west think of prophetic statements. God orchestrated the events of Calvary to parallel those passages and by doing so turned those passages into prophecies. Had the events turned out differently, no one would point to them as failed prophecies because they wouldn't even be considered prophecies at all. In Psalms 22, David is speaking of his own experience and in Isaiah 53 the subject is an unidentified "Servant of the Lord", the latter of which it seems obvious to us today that God intended to foreshadow the events of Calvary but the point is that it wouldn't have been obvious to anyone prior to those events unfolding and it certainly was not required to believe in a Messiah who would die for everyone's sins in order to be saved. That was not preached as a required component of our faith prior to Paul's ministry.

I believe the prophets had a huge impact on what people believed, and they were very graphic in their messages from God to the people. They certainly believed in God, and actually witnessed mighty miracles. It isn’t like today where we read from the book. They were living the book. Abraham actually understood exactly what God was revealing to Him. You just have to know where to look. Chapter and verse written down, but word of mouth back in the day.

Abraham was confronted with God’s JUDGEMENT when he looked upon Sodom. And he actually stood before the Lord.

Gen. 19:27-28 And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the Lord: And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.​

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When God sent Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, he understood God was teaching him something very important, concerning sacrificing his own son.

Gen. 22: 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.​

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Then in Hebrews 11: 19, we’re told that Abraham knew God was able to raise Isaac from the dead. Yes, Abraham looked forward to a sacrifice for sin and His judgement. He even knew the son part. To discount the nuggets sown throughout scripture is simply a loss.

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Amos 3:7​

Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.​

 

[glorydaz]

The point, AGAIN, is that you cannot preach Paul's gospel without the DEATH of Christ.
Whereas, the gospel of the kingdom does not require such.
Therefore, they cannot be identical.

Again, the idea that there is but a single gospel in the Bible is completely absurd.

Paul is preaching the kingdom of God.

Acts 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.​

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Acts 20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.​

Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.​

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