Thanks Bob

[PKevman]

Because it doesn't matter... you won't believe what anyone tells you.

And you come back to your old standby. When cornered on presenting the evidence of your claims, you say I won't believe it anyway. That's like the kid on the playground who said, "I could jump up to the top of the monkey bars if I felt like it".

What proof again do you have that I won't "believe what anyone tells me"?
That's a dumb thing to say, and I'm calling you on it, because it is not a true statement. You might believe it to be true, but it isn't. So if you make it again you will KNOWINGLY be lying and falsely accusing me, so please be careful.

Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana, Georgia, Mississippi, Utah and South Dakota have already passed trigger laws outlawing abortion in various ways. At least three more states (Arkansas, Missouri, North Dakota) have passed trigger laws severely restricting abortion. A total of 17 (not 13) states are waiting - NOW - to restrict or outlaw abortion. Its done, finished, confirmed, voted in and completed. The only thing that stops their trigger laws from outlawing abortion is our insistence on forcing the issue to the federal level. In the meantime, babies in these states continue to die.

In Mississippi, the trigger law passed the house as HR 60. You can look up the number designations on each state's bill on your own... if I gave them to you, you wouldn't believe it.

Thanks for the further information. See that wasn't hard. I'll be interested to look into this further. :up:

 

[PKevman]

Yes. What have they done to us to justify an act of aggression?

If your next door neighbor is killing his kid in front of you, do you have the right to step in with force and agression and stop him? Or would you watch and say he is within his rights?

 

[PKevman]

Absolutely true... but anything presented will be brushed aside with a waive of the hand.

FALSE

 

[PKevman]

LOL. you forgot lighthouse will stop throwing childish insults.

BURN


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

AND Stephen and Stephen Dale coming to the opinion that the United States of America is not a wicked and imperialistic country bent for world domination, Iraq and the entire world are better off without Saddam in power, and the government doesn't care to listen to their phone calls and read their emails.

 

[PKevman]

Actually, that was me. And I didn't call him a liar; I observed that he spoke a lie in reference to his specific accusations against Ron Paul and libertarians.

Whether or not Bob Enyart is a consistent, pathological liar I do not know. I suppose one could accurately call Enyart a "liar" in the sense of "how many banks do you have to rob before you're a bank robber?" But that really wasn't the point. I still hold out hope that overall, Enyart has some integrity and honesty. The person is far less important than the fact that the lie has been spread and it needs to be corrected, apologies need to be issued, and restitution needs to be made for the damage he has done.

The only way you could believe Bob is lying is if you accept and believe YOUR political positions. So maybe your positions are wrong and Bob was right and not lying at all? But you would rather continue to disparage him by saying he was lying than by admitting that your views could be what is in fact wrong.

 

[S†ephen]

If your next door neighbor is killing his kid in front of you, do you have the right to step in with force and agression and stop him? Or would you watch and say he is within his rights?

That's a ridiculous overstatement as you cannot give one case of a neighbor killing his children in front of someone else.

Now, back to the question no one has answered. What has Canada done to us to deserve invasion?

The answer will ultimately be nothing so lighthouse's stupid argument is destroyed.

 

[S†ephen]

AND Stephen and Stephen Dale coming to the opinion that the United States of America is not a wicked and imperialistic country bent for world domination, Iraq and the entire world are better off without Saddam in power, and the government doesn't care to listen to their phone calls and read their emails.

Mr. Kevin I haven't insulted you once on this forum. I take this as a terrible insult.

 

[PKevman]

No Mr. Kevin that is not what I am saying. I am saying that any argument can have holes poked in it by its doubters

Agreed. But truth is true no matter what someone says otherwise. Wouldn't you agree with that? There is objective truth in this world, and when we base our views on God's Word, we are basing them on objective truth. So no matter what people say, God is clear. Do you agree or disagree with this statement? If not, why?

and I would appreciate your answering of the questions asked instead simply poking holes in ours.

I've simply responded to the things you have said. My goal isn't simply to "Poke holes" in your arguments but to get you to reconsider the positions that are driving the arguments. If I wasn't your friend and brother in Christ, it wouldn't mean so much to me. Many would have shut the whole conversation off by now.

I can attack and poke holes in your argument any day of the week.

But when you have, all you've done is say things like, "Why don't you stop abortion in China". There is a big difference between attacking and poking holes in something, and making substantive responses.

I would like to see my questions answered on top the merciless hammering I get from you and lighthouse without a single answer.

Come on Buddy! Anyone reading through all of the pages of this thread could see that I have consistently and repeatedly tried to answer everything you have said. If you have a problem with Lighthouse, you need to take it up with him, but he hasn't followed this thread nearly as closely as I have, nor taken the great time to respond to your points as I have. So to say that I haven't provided a "single answer", is just not true.

I have answered your questions and those of your dad's point by point, question by question, post by post. If I haven't, please show the questions that weren't answered, and I'd be glad to answer them. It's a big thread, so it's certainly possible something got missed, but I don't think it has. When I come on I go back and read all of your posts and I respond to what seems needs to be responded to. Understand that I am also working days again now and between family and ministry and work, my posting time has been cut drastically.

Please don't twist me around like that when you know very well the respect I have for you. I completely value what you say and dismissing or twisting my posts is to me (personally) terribly insulting.

I wasn't trying to dismiss or twist your posts and I'm sorry if it came off that way. I have known you practically your whole life, and you know I love ya!

This is one of the reasons why I have always avoided this subject over the years when it's come up. Because my friendship with your family is more important to me than these political views. We have had our discussions (your dad and I) over the years, and they always ended peacefully enough, even if we completely disagreed about a subject.

I fear for my friends now more than ever, because I am afraid you're going off the deep end. If I didn't care, I wouldn't say anything. Your dad's views are a lot different than they were when we first met, and that concerns me greatly. Maybe an internet forum isn't the best place for us to talk these issues out, but with our busy lives, it's kind of what we are relegated to for the time being.

Mr. Kevin I think that I speak for my dad as well when I say I would love to believe that viewpoint. It is a much easier nicer viewpoint to believe. But I cannot ignore the blatant facts that support the opposite of what you post.

And I will say the same thing I've been saying to your Poppa for years. That the objectivity of a source of data ALWAYS has to be taken into consideration when examining the data. To say that it has no consideration is only indicative of a mindset that is bent on a particular position said data shows, and refusal to change that position.

It's like fighting vehemently that a lunatic in a nuthouse told you he saw Martians because you happened to believe in Martians, but refusing to tell people that you heard it from a lunatic in a nuthouse because you are afraid they'll reject that there are Martians. I hope this explains my thinking process on this issue further.

It's a serious matter when you charge into an internet forum started and owned by a member of a man's church and say the kinds of things that have been said about Pastor Bob here.
A man who has reached many people with the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is a serious matter when you charge into said forum and accuse this man of God of lying and refusing to consider that he may not be lying.

This is heartbreaking to me, because I invited your dad here, and now I feel I owe an apology to my friend Pastor Bob and all of his church members for doing so.

Do you think I want to feel that way about Stephen, my friend of many years? Pastor Bob and all of his church members are great people who love the Lord, and I know they'll understand, but it still breaks my heart that my good friend of many years would charge in so recklessly firing those types of accusations. And it only increases my concern, it does nothing to decrease it. Because if you'll accuse a good man like Bob (and trust me I know for a fact he's a good man), then whatever is driving those views is seriously wrong!

But my father and many other men I know have been in the same position as you are right now. They were saying the same things. And they are the ones who have changed their views.

That doesn't prove anything Bud. Just because someone changes their views doesn't make them right. :think:

 

[PKevman]

That's a ridiculous overstatement as you cannot give one case of a neighbor killing his children in front of someone else.

Now, back to the question no one has answered. What has Canada done to us to deserve invasion?

The answer will ultimately be nothing so lighthouse's stupid argument is destroyed.

The point is that someone doesn't have to do something directly to you to deserve to be stopped from what they are doing. That is why the illustration of a kid being killed by their parent in front of you was used. To get you to think about why your argument was wrong.

 

[PKevman]

Mr. Kevin I haven't insulted you once on this forum. I take this as a terrible insult.

I don't see why....I have heard that position for years from you guys. Why do you take it as an insult?

Your dad insulted Bob and Lighthouse and you applauded him and said it was a burn. I simply inserted views that I know you hold and used the same tactic, and you're insulted. But how do you think Brandon(Lighthouse) or Bob would feel if they read the repeated insults that have been hurled at them? They are my brothers in Christ as well as you and your dad.

I had dinner with Bob earlier this year, and Brandon has been to my church on two separate occasions in recent months. Both of them are God-fearing, good people.

If you don't agree with Lighthouse's debate style, you should just say that.

 

[PKevman]

Mr. Kevin I haven't insulted you once on this forum. I take this as a terrible insult.

Its a noble goal, but pigs will fly, Satan will apologize to God and Bob Enyart will tell the truth before anyone on this forum will read Paul's book.

Continuing to make statements like this are what is wrong. Bob is a friend and a brother, and when you insult him, you insult me.

I would say the same if someone were repeatedly and unjustly attacking YOUR integrity. What I said about your anti-government views was not false. It was harsh, but it was true.

 

[sopwith21]

Why should the views of this book be accepted over the myriads of books and direct quotes from Lincoln that show a different picture than this book shows?

That is an excellent question. Will you put forth the time and effort to truly research the topic in-depth and answer it?

 

[sopwith21]

I would like to see the logic behind it, the data, and what people would be paid reparations and how much.

That is a great idea. I suggest you roll up your sleeves, get to work and go find it.

 

[PKevman]

That is an excellent question. Will you put forth the time and effort to truly research the topic in-depth and answer it?

Sure. I would even be willing to discuss it in a separate thread, as I think we have veered in a hundred directions in this thread.

 

[S†ephen]

It's a serious matter when you charge into an internet forum started and owned by a member of a man's church and say the kinds of things that have been said about Pastor Bob here.
A man who has reached many people with the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is a serious matter when you charge into said forum and accuse this man of God of lying and refusing to consider that he may not be lying.

This is heartbreaking to me, because I invited your dad here, and now I feel I owe an apology to my friend Pastor Bob and all of his church members for doing so.

Do you think I want to feel that way about Stephen, my friend of many years? Pastor Bob and all of his church members are great people who love the Lord, and I know they'll understand, but it still breaks my heart that my good friend of many years would charge in so recklessly firing those types of accusations. And it only increases my concern, it does nothing to decrease it. Because if you'll accuse a good man like Bob (and trust me I know for a fact he's a good man), then whatever is driving those views is seriously wrong!

I personally have said nothing against Bob directly or otherwise so my dad is the one you'll wanna be telling this to.

 

[S†ephen]

The point is that someone doesn't have to do something directly to you to deserve to be stopped from what they are doing. That is why the illustration of a kid being killed by their parent in front of you was used. To get you to think about why your argument was wrong.

Do you believe this merits our country going to war over?

 

[PKevman]

I personally have said nothing against Bob directly or otherwise so my dad is the one you'll wanna be telling this to.

But you said it was a burn that your dad compared Bob telling the truth to Satan apologizing to God and pigs flying.......

 

[S†ephen]

I don't see why....I have heard that position for years from you guys. Why do you take it as an insult?

Because you and have not anything close to that to each other.

Your dad insulted Bob and Lighthouse and you applauded him and said it was a burn. I simply inserted views that I know you hold and used the same tactic, and you're insulted. But how do you think Brandon(Lighthouse) or Bob would feel if they read the repeated insults that have been hurled at them? They are my brothers in Christ as well as you and your dad.

Lighthouse and Bob are the two that first lowered themselves to a name calling standard. I'd assumed you and I would stay above that.

 

[S†ephen]

But you said it was a burn that your dad compared Bob telling the truth to Satan apologizing to God and pigs flying.......

Ok sorry about that one.

 

[PKevman]

Do you believe this merits our country going to war over?

I think that we need to stop killing babies here and now in our country before we could go to war with Canada over it. That would make us hypocritical. HOWEVER....if we stopped Canada from murdering babies, it would be the right thing to do. The same as stopping your neighbor from murdering his own kid would be the right thing to do.

Please answer THIS question:

If you saw your neighbor repeatedly beating his 2 year old child with a club, would you be RIGHT to use FORCE to stop him from doing so? Please answer the question without regard to the political issues.