Thanks Bob

[elected4ever]

I don't think that shouting "Do not murder" to the rooftops is an insane and unworkable plan. No compromising on "Do not murder". That's the Christian and Biblical position.

I don't think anyone is going to hell for anything that they have done but because they are dead. The works follow them and they are judged by there works. They go to hell because their names are not written in the Lambs book of life.

 

[PKevman]

I don't think anyone is going to hell for anything that they have non but because they are dead. The works follow them and they are judged by there works. They go to hell because their names are not written in the Lambs book of life.

We aren't talking about that right now. We are talking about whether or not it is wrong for Americans to kill unborn babies and what can be done to stop it.

Our position is that it is wrong to murder, because "Do not murder" should be the foundation of any civilized society. What you said has nothing to do with the topic at hand. This isn't a debate about heaven and hell, but about the murder of innocent babies.

 

[PKevman]

E4E, you didn't answer my question.

Is "Do not murder" a bad law?

 

[PKevman]

And I can agree with most of this. But God wrote His moral law on the hearts of mankind E4E. And pointing them back to that law is what leads to them seeing their need for a Savior.

"Do not murder" is as foundational of a law that exists. It is the very foundation of God's criminal justice system. There should be no compromise on it. God knows better than we do.

Do you agree with these things or not? Or do you think "Do not murder" is a bad law?

 

[elected4ever]

We aren't talking about that right now. We are talking about whether or not it is wrong for Americans to kill unborn babies and what can be done to stop it.

Our position is that it is wrong to murder, because "Do not murder" should be the foundation of any civilized society. What you said has nothing to do with the topic at hand. This isn't a debate about heaven and hell, but about the murder of innocent babies.

Right but it has a lot to do with our approach to correcting bad law. As lone as no correction is made to the 14th amendment there is little of no chance of our goal ever being realized. Right now the constitution supports abortions. I think it was an unintended consequence but the effect is the same. The courts must support the born over the unborn. Right now the constitution does not recognize the life of the unborn. Therefore abortion is not murder but I agree that it should be. Calling people abortionist when they believe the same as you is counter productive.

 

[PatriotBeliever]

There have already been answers given to all of these lame arguments.

No there has only been hypothetical fear mongering along the lines of "what if a state legalizes abortion?" which I and others have pointed out is irrelevant in our 100% legalized federal mandate that we currently accept. How dare we propose that States actually be allowed to consider outlawing abortion.
Yet somehow it makes sense to some to keep this power in the federal government's hands.

 

[Granite]

No there has only been hypothetical fear mongering along the lines of "what if a state legalizes abortion?" which I and others have pointed out is irrelevant in our 100% legalized federal mandate that we currently accept. How dare we propose that States actually be allowed to consider outlawing abortion.
Yet somehow it makes sense to some to keep this power in the federal government's hands.

At some point these so-called conservatives just stopped caring and became what they beheld, to wit:

When the going gets tough, look to big government for a fix.

 

[PatriotBeliever]

I take him very seriously, and think he's a great presidential candidate. More solid than any we've probably had in years.

I feel the same way you do about Alan Keyes in my feelings for Ron Paul. I cannot take someone who holds the views he holds seriously.

Well, since he comes up sometimes, I'll say a few things about Keyes. I like some of what Alan Keyes has said in the past, but please get serious. Some here have pretended that Keyes would do more than I think he actually would do, IF he could get elected. Listen to John Lofton's interview with him and you will see, he actually agrees with Paul on some key points about the Constitution and some issues that some here have mis characterized. Take some time to listen...Listen here.

Another issue is that Keyes has a big problem actually succeeding in getting elected. At best he has been a professional candidate. He has run and lost for Senate in 88, 92 and 04, for president in 96 and 2000. He was beat by Barack Obama in 2004. Ron Paul has run for office and even won at ten terms in congress, with a break to go back to private medical practice in between.

Keyes is for reparations which is unjustifiable. Why should people who had nothing to do with slavery be required to pay money to other people who have never been slaves themselves? This is definitely not conservative.

 

[PatriotBeliever]

And YET... even believers have to obey the laws of the lands they live in or they will face earthly consequences of their disobedience (i.e. getting arrested). Just because someone is a believer doesn't give them a right to shoplift!

The law of the land in the United States is the Constitution.

 

[PatriotBeliever]

Why not join in the real fight and stand for "Do not murder" to be law in all 50 states?

Ok, sign me up.
Now that that's settled, let's save the unborn that we can by turning Roe v. Wade over with H.R. 2597 and end the current legalized abortion that exists in all 50 states.

 

[PatriotBeliever]

At some point these so-called conservatives just stopped caring and became what they beheld, to wit:

When the going gets tough, look to big government for a fix.

Evidently

 

[PKevman]

Ok, sign me up.

GREAT! So you're willing to support Dr. Keyes then?

 

[Granite]

Supporting Keyes is a spectacular waste of time and money and it doesn't surprise me at all that so many people here are enamored with him.

It's incredible how consistently some folks can get it wrong...again, and again, and again. Paul's a fine candidate, he's right in front of you, and, naturally, he's not good enough. You guys literally don't know a constitutionalist when you see one.

 

[elected4ever]

Ok, sign me up.
Now that that's settled, let's save the unborn that we can by turning Roe v. Wade over with H.R. 2597 and end the current legalized abortion that exists in all 50 states.

I think our only difference is that I do not think that HR 2597 would be sufficient to overturn Roe v Wade. I believe the constitution needs to be corrected with a right to life amendment. I do not think that Ron Paul would be opposed to such an amendment but as things presently stand he is opposed to Central government authority to dictate to the states a state's policy. Ron Paul is a 10th amendment advocate. I agree with that policy.

 

[elected4ever]

Supporting Keyes is a spectacular waste of time and money and it doesn't surprise me at all that so many people here are enamored with him.

It's incredible how consistently some folks can get it wrong...again, and again, and again. Paul's a fine candidate, he's right in front of you, and, naturally, he's not good enough. You guys literally don't know a constitutionalist when you see one.

I do not think that Dr. Keys is enough of a statesman to be the president but he would be an excellent support for a president. Like you I do not support reparations. How ever he is a principled man.

 

[drbrumley]

Paul's a fine candidate, he's right in front of you, and, naturally, he's not good enough. You guys literally don't know a constitutionalist when you see one.

Oh they know. Pastor and the rest of them don't like the Constitution. It is garbage. That's why Keyes is attractive to them. To do away with it in principle. Keyes thinks we belong in the Middle East. Keyes thinks we should give Isreal billions of dollars. Keyes believes regime change at our whim is a good thing. Keyes believes we as a government should pay (reparations) blacks for our misdeeds of the past. The only reason Keyes does not like the UN right now is because we don't run the show. But you can bet your bottom dollar he likes the fact we are the world's policeman. Keyes no doubt is a one worlder, just he has a different perspective as to how the world should be run. And who should run it.

 

[Granite]

Oh they know. Pastor and the rest of them don't like the Constitution. It is garbage. That's why Keyes is attractive to them. To do away with it in principle. Keyes thinks we belong in the Middle East. Keyes thinks we should give Isreal billions of dollars. Keyes believes regime change at our whim is a good thing. Keyes believes we as a government should pay (reparations) blacks for our misdeeds of the past. The only reason Keyes does not like the UN right now is because we don't run the show. But you can bet your bottom dollar he likes the fact we are the world's policeman. Keyes no doubt is a one worlder, just he has a different perspective as to how the world should be run. And who should run it.

Agreed. Other than his slavish emphasis on social issues (seriously; he needed to talk about Massachusetts legalizing gay marriage?) Keyes is very much a same song, different verse kind of candidate.

 

[PatriotBeliever]

I think our only difference is that I do not think that HR 2597 would be sufficient to overturn Roe v Wade. I believe the constitution needs to be corrected with a right to life amendment. I do not think that Ron Paul would be opposed to such an amendment but as things presently stand he is opposed to Central government authority to dictate to the states a state's policy. Ron Paul is a 10th amendment advocate. I agree with that policy.

In effect it would give the states the ability to actually "protect the unborn" now for the first time in 30+ years while limiting the courts back to their proper roll, restricting their ability to legalize it again.
I would be fine with the amendment as well, but as I've pointed out it is extremely difficult to properly amend the Constitution and the two methods for doing it both involve the states, the same states which many here fear will choose to legalize abortion. Either way the states are involved whether people want to admit it or not, the legislation will at least release them to outlaw abortion now, an amendment could take a long time, assuming states or the Congress would start the specific process and assuming the states would then properly ratify the amendment.
I think in general, we're on the same page.

 

[PatriotBeliever]

GREAT! So you're willing to support Dr. Keyes then?

Nope,
as I posted a few replies up:

Well, since he comes up sometimes, I'll say a few things about Keyes. I like some of what Alan Keyes has said in the past, but please get serious. Some here have pretended that Keyes would do more than I think he actually would do, IF he could get elected. Listen to John Lofton's interview with him and you will see, he actually agrees with Paul on some key points about the Constitution and some issues that some here have mis characterized. Take some time to listen...Listen here.

Another issue is that Keyes has a big problem actually succeeding in getting elected. At best he has been a professional candidate. He has run and lost for Senate in 88, 92 and 04, for president in 96 and 2000. He was beat by Barack Obama in 2004. Ron Paul has run for office and even won at ten terms in congress, with a break to go back to private medical practice in between.

Keyes is for reparations which is unjustifiable. Why should people who had nothing to do with slavery be required to pay money to other people who have never been slaves themselves? This is definitely not conservative.

 

[Jefferson]

Here comes Ron Paul

Here comes Ron Paul

Bob Novak at HumanEvents.com reports the following:

Rep. Ron Paul set fundraising records on Monday, pulling in $4.2 million in online donations in one day. This is the largest single day of online fundraising in political history, and the largest single day of donations for any Republican candidate ever. The donations, averaging a little more than $100 each, reflect the unmatched enthusiasm of Paul's supporters, who range from anti-war activists to libertarians to fed-up Republicans.


Interestingly, it was volunteer supporters with no affiliations to Paul's campaign who organized the fundraiser. For all the talk of candidates' using the Internet in 2008, Paul's campaign is the only one that is really doing it -- and he is doing it mostly by stepping back and letting his enthusiastic backers form their own networks of support.