beloved57
Well-known member
I cant tell.
Testifying to the Gospel of Gods Grace !
- Thread starter beloved57
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Maybe if you would get your head out of the sands of calvinism, you'd be able to.
How utterly unsurprising.
beloved57
Well-known member
To show us how particular and free the Grace of God is, the scriptures tell us it was given to God’s elect on purpose and before the world began. We read “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began” 2 Timothy 1:9
Grace is free in that it was unconditionally given to Gods elect on purpose in Christ before the world began.
Gods Grace like His Love is particular and ony given to Gods Elect. Its never in scripture described as being given to mankind in general, for its written Rom 9:15
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Grace is free in that it was unconditionally given to Gods elect on purpose in Christ before the world began.
Gods Grace like His Love is particular and ony given to Gods Elect. Its never in scripture described as being given to mankind in general, for its written Rom 9:15
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Bad students of the Bible wrongly think God does not love all men and does not want sinners to turn from their sin and be saved because He supposedly has pleasure in burning their sorry helpless bodies in the fires of hell for reasons that only He can understand.
Ezekiel 18:32
For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
beloved57
Well-known member
The Grace of God will be given to all in time who God gave it to them in Christ Jesus according to His Eternal Purpose before time began 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
So when Paul writes to his recipients Grace to you Rom 1:7
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thats Grace was given to them in Christ before the world began !
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
So when Paul writes to his recipients Grace to you Rom 1:7
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thats Grace was given to them in Christ before the world began !
Care to write something that ACTUALLY makes sense?
Time doesn't have a beginning.
The verse doesn't say "before time began." It says "before the world began."
Huge difference.
Nope, sorry. None of these passages say what you want them to say.
beloved57
Well-known member
@JudgeRightly
Are you sure because it has an end according to Rev 10:6
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Apparently you never studied that verse, the greek word for world there is chronos and means time
And its the same word used in Rev 10:6
Are you sure because it has an end according to Rev 10:6
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Apparently you never studied that verse, the greek word for world there is chronos and means time
And its the same word used in Rev 10:6
Yes, I'm sure.
No, it doesn't.
Nope. That's simply a very poor translation of what the verse says.
Here's what it actually says:
and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things that are in it, that there should be delay no longer, - Revelation 10:6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation10:6&version=NKJV
In other words, it doesn't say what you want it to say.
Which verse? 1 Timothy 1:9?
Here's what it says:
dothesian hemin en Christo Iesou pro chronon aionion
[having been given] [us] [in] [Christ] [Jesus] [before] [times] [age-long]
What Paul actually wrote was "before the times of the ages."
There's no word "began" in either that verse or in Titus 1:2, like you want there to be. To correct what I said earlier:
That should actually say:
The verse doesn't say "before time began." That's a poor translation. What was actually said was "before the times of the ages."
Chronon, plural. Not Chronos, singular.
Huge difference.
Nope. The root word is the same, meaning time, but the word in Revelation 10:6 is singular, while the word in both 1 Timothy 1:9 and Titus 1:2 is plural.
Things that differ are not the same.
beloved57
Well-known member
It should be mentioned that when speaking about Gods Grace, the Grace of God, we are speaking more than about a kind affection or favor, but the Grace of God speaks of power, yeah even Spiritual Power, Gods Power. Gods Grace is said to reign, that denotes power Rom 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
That word reign as it is found twice in the text, is the greek word basileuō:
Paul here uses it metaphorically ! It takes power to raise a dead sinner to life by grace Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
That word reign as it is found twice in the text, is the greek word basileuō:
- to be king, to exercise kingly power, to reign
- of the governor of a province
- of the rule of the Messiah
- of the reign of Christians in the millennium
- metaph. to exercise the highest influence, to control
Paul here uses it metaphorically ! It takes power to raise a dead sinner to life by grace Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
beloved57
Well-known member
Grace is Power in that people will believe because of it. Paul became a believer and minister by the mighty working of Grace Eph 3:7
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
The Grace of God here is the same as the effectual working of Gods power.
The word power here is the greek word dynamis:
Now its the same word Paul uses to describe earlier in the same epistle, that the elect believe according to the working of Gods Power Eph 1:19
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe according to the working of his mighty power,
This is Gods Grace power at work, so Paul says believers believed because of Grace Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
The Grace of God here is the same as the effectual working of Gods power.
The word power here is the greek word dynamis:
- strength power, ability
- inherent power, power residing in a thing by virtue of its nature, or which a person or thing exerts and puts forth
- power for performing miracles
- moral power and excellence of soul
- the power and influence which belong to riches and wealth
- power and resources arising from numbers
- power consisting in or resting upon armies, forces, hosts
Now its the same word Paul uses to describe earlier in the same epistle, that the elect believe according to the working of Gods Power Eph 1:19
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe according to the working of his mighty power,
This is Gods Grace power at work, so Paul says believers believed because of Grace Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
beloved57
Well-known member
The Grace of God in Salvation of a sinner has to do with the Lords Sovereign will and Right to choose, whom He will and will not save, a choice He made before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4. This Salvation by Grace had nothing to do with man choosing God with his own freewill, twas only Gods will that was free in the matter.
Notice how B57 has completely ignored everything I said, where I show that his position is wrong.
beloved57
Well-known member
Salvation is all about Gods Grace reigning Rom 5:21
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Grace reigns through righteousness, thats the righteousness Christ worked out, Grace reigns unto eternal life, Grace reigns by our Lord Jesus Christ !
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Grace reigns through righteousness, thats the righteousness Christ worked out, Grace reigns unto eternal life, Grace reigns by our Lord Jesus Christ !
Yup. Still ignoring anything anyone else says that goes against his position.
Thanks be to God for allowing us to illustrate that grace through our righteousness to our fellow men.
beloved57
Well-known member
Preaching the Gospel of God's Grace can oft times be offensive, since Grace in Salvation is grounded in Gods election, Salvation that is in Christ Jesus is for Gods Elect, and Paul a preacher of the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ Jesus, did make that truth known 2 Tim 2:8-10
8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they[Gods elect] may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
In the original Paul uses the definite article for Salvation, hence " The Salvation, which is in Christ Jesus, is specifically for Gods Elect"
8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they[Gods elect] may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
In the original Paul uses the definite article for Salvation, hence " The Salvation, which is in Christ Jesus, is specifically for Gods Elect"
How important is the preaching of the gospel to election? Will God save whomever He wants to save whether they hear the gospel or not? Are preachers right to preach to sinners the gospel message that if they simply believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, they shall be saved? Yes.
Romans 10
1. Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.