Taxation Is Theft

[JudgeRightly]

fraud

Coming from someone who has the homosexual flag in their profile picture. Who can't or won't answer some very simple questions about what is in the Bible. Who doesn't understand that law and grace are two different covenants, one for the Jews initially, and then when Israel was cut off, for the world, and the other is for the Christians.

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[JudgeRightly]

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
btw JR, what kind of stone do you prefer when you stone someone's child?
Deuteronomy 21:18–21



I asked you a question and want an answer to it.

In your Jewish/Muslim based theocratic society, disobedient children are stoned to death for horrific crimes like being an alcoholic and eating too much (in my Christian based society we send them to therapy where they receive spiritual and psychological counseling).

What kind of stone do you barbarians prefer to use when stoning someone's disobedient child?

Your entire argument here is a straw-man. Children being stoned to death for being alcoholic or gluttons? Where in the Bible do you find that? You seem to be confusing Jews with Muslims. Don't.

Let me make something clear to you.

All crime is sin. But not all sin is a crime. According to the first commandment, worshiping a God other than Jehovah is a sin, but it would not be a crime in a Christian government.

Drunkenness is a sin and a crime. So are murder, rape, adultery, fornication, and theft. Gluttony is a sin, but not a crime.

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[JudgeRightly]

Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Promises, promises. You godless Libertarians are always getting my hopes up.



Let's say I just love exposing godless Libertarians.



So our nation's charter (the Declaration of Independence) which says that it's citizens' rights come from God is the basis for a "secular humanist form of government that God is against"? That same nation's constitution which is based on biblical doctrine is the basis for a "secular humanist form of government that God is against"?

Too funny.

You apparently completely missed his point. His argument is that the form of government you advocate is not in the Bible. Your response is that the form of government you advocate promotes God (which it no longer does due to it's nature). Your response is not answering his argument. Just because something claims to be based on the Bible does NOT mean that it is inherently a good thing (see Martin Luther's writings about the Jews). Or even better, look at Karl Marx, who used the Bible to bring communism (Yes, I know, not a form of government, but an economic system; that's not the point) out into the world. Communism is bad, but the early church lived under what amounted to communism. The reason why is for another discussion, but I would hope that you would agree with me that communism is inherently destructive, and recognize that even though something based on biblical principles, it doesn't make it inherently good.

The argument is this: you cannot provide evidence for any other form of government being promoted by God other than monarchy because it just does not exist. Refute that, and we can continue the discussion on what form of government is just. If you can't, then at least admit that you can't, instead of ignoring the challenges and dancing around the questions.

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[Daniel1769]

Ive already responded in the begining of the thread, read those posts till you understand them, relevant scripture was also given.

No, you didn't because there are no scriptures about republics or voting. There was no government, and God was the ruler. Then He gave the judges. Then when the people demanded a king, God warned them against it, but gave them a king. He never gave anyone a republic or democracy. Jesus didn't write the Constitution and He isn't impressed by America. All nations before Him are as nothing, and they are counted unto Him less than nothing, and vanity.

 

[Daniel1769]

Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Promises, promises. You godless Libertarians are always getting my hopes up.



Let's say I just love exposing godless Libertarians.



So our nation's charter (the Declaration of Independence) which says that it's citizens' rights come from God is the basis for a "secular humanist form of government that God is against"? That same nation's constitution which is based on biblical doctrine is the basis for a "secular humanist form of government that God is against"?

Too funny.

STILL no scripture!!! You lose, sir. It's been three days, and you've not not posted a single verse. You lose. Good day.

 

[Crucible]

Please show me the verse where God ordained a form of government besides monarchy. PLEASE! I've been begging for days in this thread. Since you know scripture and are so wise, please show me where God ordained your republic. Please just show me the verse!

God's providence is not exclusive to a monarchy. The only reason God ordained a monarchy was because the Jews desired a king to have solidarity. This was the state of man through the ages until we formed well enough to have unity without it.

The feudal system was straight up popery, who instead of striving for the noble goal of republicanism and democracy, used lordship to make Peter's seat the throne of thrones.

The Reformers made a mighty claim that, because of this, the popes were sons of perdition. The Catholic Church used the dogmas of divine providence to extort kingdoms and their kings.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
fraud

Coming from someone who has the homosexual flag in their profile picture.

It's a constant reminder for those who dare to call themselves Christian yet voted for Donald Trump what kind of man they voted for (and I use the word "man" loosely when talking about Donald Trump).

We really shouldn't talk about homosexuality in this thread, as it upsets Dan the anarchist when we do (and he's upset enough already).

Back to the penalty phase that you theocrats want to establish (stoning to death homosexuals, adulterers and disobedient children) :

I've never been able to get someone who identifies as a Christian to say the following, and am hoping that you will be the first.

"When it comes to the penalty phase of things like homosexuality, adultery and children that are disobedient to their parents, 2000 years of Christianized western civilization got the teachings of Jesus Christ all wrong and the religion of Islam got it right."

Say it JR, I want to read it straight from your Pixel XL using TheologyOnlne mobile app.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
fraud

It's a constant reminder for those who dare to call themselves Christian yet voted for Donald Trump what kind of man they voted for (and I use the word "man" loosely when talking about Donald Trump).

I didn't vote for anyone, but had I voted, I would have voted for Tom Hoefling.

Back to the penalty phase that you theocrats want to establish (stoning to death homosexuals, adulterers and disobedient children) :

Stoning homos and adulterers is biblical... But you still haven't answered me where you got the idea that stoning disobedient children is. If you could point to a book, chapter, and verse, that'd be great.

I've never been able to get someone who identifies as a Christian to say the following, and am hoping that you will be the first.

"When it comes to the penalty phase of things like homosexuality, adultery and children that are disobedient to their parents, 2000 years of Christianized western civilization got the teachings of Jesus Christ all wrong and the religion of Islam got it right."

I'd like to know what the context is of what you're saying... For the past 3500 years, homosexuality and adultery have been capital crimes, and children were much better behaved than today's children. Only in the last 3 decades have things gotten worse.

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[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
It's [the photo of President Elect Donald Trump proudly holding the LGBTQ rainbow flag] a constant reminder for those who dare to call themselves Christian yet voted for Donald Trump what kind of man they voted for (and I use the word "man" loosely when talking about Donald Trump).

I didn't vote for anyone,...

Ah yes, yet another 'Christian' who complains about the state of affairs in the US but doesn't get involved in the political process.

Quote: Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Back to the penalty phase that you theocrats want to establish (stoning to death homosexuals, adulterers and disobedient children) :

Stoning homos and adulterers is biblical...

Approved by God during the Jewish theocracy, which Jesus rescinded in the NT. Obviously you haven't done your assigned homework on Jewish ceremonial, civil and moral laws.

But you still haven't answered me where you got the idea that stoning disobedient children is. If you could point to a book, chapter, and verse, that'd be great.

Since you missed it in my earlier post, here it is again:

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
18*If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19*Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20*And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21*And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.


Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
I've never been able to get someone who identifies as a Christian to say the following, and am hoping that you will be the first.

"When it comes to the penalty phase of things like homosexuality, adultery and children that are disobedient to their parents, 2000 years of Christianized western civilization got the teachings of Jesus Christ all wrong and the religion of Islam got it right."

I'd like to know what the context is of what you're saying... For the past 3500 years, homosexuality and adultery have been capital crimes, and children were much better behaved than today's children.

In Muslim countries it's been going on that long. As far as during the Jewish theocracy? It's questionable if the Roman's (who carried out punishment for the Jews) enforced it, since so many of their Emperors were sodomites themselves.

Only in the last 3 decades have things gotten worse.

You're preaching to someone who is the author of a 4 part thread entitled "Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized!" I've spent a lot of time researching the homosexual movement as well as what brings on same sex desires. Needless to say, the 'gay' agenda would be stopped cold in it's tracks if homosexuality were a felony once again.

That being said: You'll have to go through me if you have plans on stoning to death some 12 year old boy who was brutally raped as a child and because of it contracted same sex desires.

 

[patrick jane]

You'll have to go through me if you have plans on stoning to death some 12 year old boy who was brutally raped as a child and because of it contracted same sex desires.

contracted?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Ah yes, yet another 'Christian' who complains about the state of affairs in the US but doesn't get involved in the political process.

You know what they say about assuming things, right? I didn't vote because I was out on the road and unable to.

Approved by God during the Jewish theocracy, which Jesus rescinded in the NT. Obviously you haven't done your assigned homework on Jewish ceremonial, civil and moral laws.

You still have yet to show me where Jesus said that these punishments were rescinded. And no, the verses from Galatians and Ephesians don't work. They're not directed at those who are under the law. They are directed at those who are under grace.

Since you missed it in my earlier post, here it is again:

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
18*If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19*Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20*And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21*And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Looks to me like the stoning punishment for children that you are referring to is actually only for those who are resistant to all correction, who don't want to be a productive member of society. I'd say that's a just law. So please, tell me where the Bible says that "children" should be stoned.

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
I've never been able to get someone who identifies as a Christian to say the following, and am hoping that you will be the first.

"When it comes to the penalty phase of things like homosexuality, adultery and children that are disobedient to their parents, 2000 years of Christianized western civilization got the teachings of Jesus Christ all wrong and the religion of Islam got it right."

In Muslim countries it's been going on that long. As far as during the Jewish theocracy? It's questionable if the Roman's (who carried out punishment for the Jews) enforced it, since so many of their Emperors were sodomites themselves.

At the time of the founding of our country, if someone would have claimed to be a homosexual or adulterer, they would have been executed, and rightly so.

You're preaching to someone who is the author of a 4 part thread entitled "Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized!" I've spent a lot of time researching the homosexual movement as well as what brings on same sex desires. Needless to say, the 'gay' agenda would be stopped cold in it's tracks if homosexuality were a felony once again.

The problem is, and you should already know this, that it was a crime, and the government that you advocate for allowed it to become commonplace, if not legal. When the law can be changed by majority rule, the law will guaranteed become more wicked over time.

That being said: You'll have to go through me if you have plans on stoning to death some 12 year old boy who was brutally raped as a child and because of it contracted same sex desires.

Why do you keep assuming that I want innocent children to be stoned? Because that would be unjust.

Question for you: Who is under the Law (moral law, not just the law of the land)? Only the Jews? Or the entire world?
Are Christians under the Law?

 

[JudgeRightly]

You know what they say about assuming things, right? I didn't vote because I was out on the road and unable to.



You still have yet to show me where Jesus said that these punishments were rescinded. And no, the verses from Galatians and Ephesians don't work. They're not directed at those who are under the law. They are directed at those who are under grace.



Looks to me like the stoning punishment for children that you are referring to is actually only for those who are resistant to all correction, who don't want to be a productive member of society. I'd say that's a just law. So please, tell me where the Bible says that "children" should be stoned.



At the time of the founding of our country, if someone would have claimed to be a homosexual or adulterer, they would have been executed, and rightly so.



The problem is, and you should already know this, that it was a crime, and the government that you advocate for allowed it to become commonplace, if not legal. When the law can be changed by majority rule, the law will guaranteed become more wicked over time.



Why do you keep assuming that I want innocent children to be stoned? Because that would be unjust.

Question for you: Who is under the Law (moral law, not just the law of the land)? Only the Jews? Or the entire world?
Are Christians under the Law?

aCultureWarrior, any response to this?

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[JudgeRightly]

So it appears that aCW has abandoned this thread (aCW, feel free to prove me wrong), so back to the OP topic, "taxation."

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[drbrumley]

The topic is taxation and yes it is theft unless it's voluntary

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[annabenedetti]

For the past 3500 years, homosexuality and adultery have been capital crimes, and children were much better behaved than today's children. Only in the last 3 decades have things gotten worse.

Killing homosexuals and adulterers makes children behave better? :freak:

 

[Town Heretic]

Taxation is never theft, legally. It may be odious and onerous, but that's another thing entirely. If someone insists upon the right to individually determine what constitutes a legal definition or to conflate their subjective moral judgments with it, then there's no point in arguing with them. You can't reason with someone whose position isn't seated in reason, but in their feeling about a thing.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The topic is taxation and yes it is theft unless it's voluntary

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So if taxes were stopped completely, what would fund the government?

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[JudgeRightly]

Killing homosexuals and adulterers makes children behave better? :freak:

Without the death penalty, lawlessness reigned upon the earth.(Gen. 6:12-13)

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[annabenedetti]

Looks to me like the stoning punishment for children that you are referring to is actually only for those who are resistant to all correction, who don't want to be a productive member of society. I'd say that's a just law.

Why do you keep assuming that I want innocent children to be stoned? Because that would be unjust.

Why do you see stoning children as just?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Why do you see stoning children as just?

Where in that verse do you see the word (or word(s) used) for "children"? I see the word "son", which in this context (at least to me) seems to mean that the son is an adult, or at least above the age of accountability.

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