Talk to the guy who tried to do something

[Zakath]

That's only because he's the best. :thumb:

You wouldn't be related to the dreadful hat would you?

 

[Zakath]

Don't you mean, "When you're a Calvinist..."? Or, "When you're a charismatic...?"

Nope. I meant what I wrote. I'm no longer a pastor. I don't need you to try to interpet for me.

 

[Zakath]

I want to go into the ministry, but I disagree with this. For example, the devil isn't always responsible for getting you sick.

I was speaking to a specific pastor responding to a specific post. Don't read more into the comment than I intended.

 

[Turbo]

I think he's speaking from experience.

I know. Funny how he even though he thinks that the Bible isn't true, he seems to think that his charismatic Calvinist interpretation is the right one, and that all Christians must be charismatic Calvinists. :freak:

 

[Turbo]

I was speaking to a specific pastor responding to a specific post.

Well, you're comment, "When you're a pastor, everything has a spiritual cause" didn't fit that particular pastor at all.

 

[Mr. 5020]

Well, you're comment, "When you're a pastor, everything has a spiritual cause" didn't fit that particular pastor at all.

Zakath,

Dare you blaspheme the great BOB?!?! You shall surely burn in eternal torment for this!!!!!!

 

[Christine]

I know. Funny how he even though he thinks that the Bible isn't true, he seems to think that his charismatic Calvinist interpretation is the right one, and that all Christians must be charismatic Calvinists. :freak:

Charismatics are more Armenian/free-will than Calvinistic. They believe that one is not totally depraved, that all men can be Christians if they will, and that once saved they can lose their salvation. All of these are predominant Armenian beliefs.

 

[Jefferson]

I already went over a similar analogy with Art, so I'll rehash.

One: sneaking food into a concentration camp or saving Jews ala Oskar Schindler is not the same thing as dramatically approaching a phalanx of cops, announcing at the top of your lungs that you're trying to bring her water.

That's not what happened. His intention was to give Terry water, not to put on a show. Here’s another quote from the show: ”A few days ago I had to explain to my daughter why the police were arresting children on television. And in the course of that conversation she looked up at me with her big beautiful innocent eyes and she said, "Somebody should bring her water." And I realized that this is my daughter. I'm her "somebody." And so I did this for my daughter and for my family. I went down there and I told my daughter, "I will try to bring her water." And I told all the people down there that I am going to try to bring her water. And that's what I tried to do. I didn't try to make a symbolic statement to just be arrested. I filled a glass with water and I proceeded to march toward the building and I was subsequently arrested.”

Two: those smuggling food or weapons into the camps risked their lives; these protestors are looking at a slap on the wrist.

You know for a fact that if protesting outside Terry’s hospice would result in execution that none of these protestors would have protested? You know this for a fact? You can see into each one of their hearts?

Three: assisting Jews was not a publicity stunt, it was an act of treason.

Our government sees it as treasonous as well. From Friday’s show: ” Their fear is that they have evidence right now that she's capable of much more than they've said she is. And anything would show that to the public really undermines the courts and their authority. And their authority to them is far more valuable than the innocent human life that they're going to take.”

Four: the German people and those they occupied by and large supported the Final Solution and actively assisted it; the Shoah did not take place in a nation with a free press and public discourse.

Point being?

These Third Reich analogies are knee jerk and thin, not to mention intellectually lazy.

Reminds me of a certain TOL poster who likes to referr to theonomists as “brown shirts.”

 

[Lighthouse]

Actually, that icon may have been purchased and named that way as a deliberate insult.

:duh:

You're a regular Sherlock Holmes.

 

[SOTK]

More like a Dick Tracy!

 

[Lighthouse]

p.s. And I'd bet on this homeschooled 13-year-old in a history contest against Zakath anyday.

I'm with ya on that one, Bob.

 

[Lighthouse]

I think he's speaking from experience.

He was an A/G pastor, so I think you're right.

Turbo-
A/G is not Calvinist. They don't beleive in eternal security. In fact, they teach that you must maintain your salvation, and alwyas ask forgiveness when you sin, or you're going to hell. I know. I used to be in one, for ten years.:nono:

 

[Lucky]

Charismatics are more Armenian/free-will than Calvinistic.

Actually, a charismatic is one who simply believes that the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" are valid for modern day usage. They are found all across the theological/denominational board.

 

[Lighthouse]

You know for a fact that if protesting outside Terry’s hospice would result in execution that none of these protestors would have protested? You know this for a fact? You can see into each one of their hearts?

You know, if that were the case, I might actually have tried to get there to protest.

 

[Lighthouse]

More like a Dick Tracey!

Only without the Tracy.

Pssst... there's no e.

 

[Christine]

Actually, a charismatic is one who simply believes that the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" are valid for modern day usage. They are found all across the theological/denominational board.

Most mainline charismatics are also Armenians. Pentacostals. Assembly of God. Some Church of God's. There might be some more Calvinistic churches that lean this way, but I've never heard of one. If one did exist, they would certainally be in the minority among charismatic churches.

 

[Turbo]

Turbo-
A/G is not Calvinist.

From what I've seen, I would guess that Calvinism still heavily influences most A/G members, as it does just about every denomination (including those that say they aren't Calvinist or don't hold all five points).

Regardless, Zakath always interprets the Bible with a Calvinist bent, and argues against all Christians as though they were Calvinists. Maybe he was a Calvinist. Maybe he thinks the Calvinist interpretation is the "right" one. Or, maybe he just likes to use it as a straw man. (It could be a bit of each.)

 

[Granite]

"That's not what happened. His intention was to give Terry water, not to put on a show."

That may be, but others have dramatically announced their intentions. If that's not a publicity stunt I don't know what is.

"You know for a fact that if protesting outside Terry’s hospice would result in execution that none of these protestors would have protested? You know this for a fact? You can see into each one of their hearts?"

I didn't say that at all. I just stated the obvious: helping Jews in the Third Reich and holding up a glass of water are apples and oranges. The penalties are completely different because the ACTION is completely different. The efforts of the protestors are simply not on par with what Schindler and others did in resisting the Nazi regime.

"Our government sees it as treasonous as well."

Oh really. When did the Bush brothers make this announcement?

"Reminds me of a certain TOL poster who likes to referr to theonomists as 'brown shirts.'"

If the shirt fits, wear it. Very well. I will now use the phrase "black shirts." The Italian brawlers, not the German variety. As you wish!:devil:

 

[Jefferson]

"That's not what happened. His intention was to give Terry water, not to put on a show."

That may be, but others have dramatically announced their intentions. If that's not a publicity stunt I don't know what is.

"Others" are not the subject of this thread. Doug McBurney is. Your guilt-by-association tactic didn't work. Try again.

"You know for a fact that if protesting outside Terry’s hospice would result in execution that none of these protestors would have protested? You know this for a fact? You can see into each one of their hearts?"

I didn't say that at all. I just stated the obvious: helping Jews in the Third Reich and holding up a glass of water are apples and oranges. The penalties are completely different because the ACTION is completely different. The efforts of the protestors are simply not on par with what Schindler and others did in resisting the Nazi regime.

So someone who protests is only doing the right thing if they are risking their lives? No one should protest for or against abortion? No one should protest for or against the war? No one should protest for or against anything in the USA because it is not life threatening? That's actually your point? You've got to be kidding.

"Our government sees it as treasonous as well."

Oh really. When did the Bush brothers make this announcement?

Of course they wouldn't announce it for political reasons. There are many things politicians are not forthcoming about for political reasons.

 

[Granite]

"So someone who protests is only doing the right thing if they are risking their lives?"

Uh...no, Jeff. I didn't say that at all. Here's my point, and if I need to use smaller words, let me know: THE COMPARISON IS INACCURATE. Oskar Schindler on one hand, some blowhard with a Dixie cup of water on the other. Sorry, that dog don't hunt. The analogy is simply absurd. Apples and oranges.

"No one should protest for or against abortion?"

I didn't say that. I've protested abortion clinics and landfills where the corpses of infants are dumped.

"No one should protest for or against the war? No one should protest for or against anything in the USA because it is not life threatening?"

:yawn:

See above...

"That's actually your point?"

No.

"You've got to be kidding."

Ditto.