Everyone knows that a qb can play poorly and the team still get a win, and that a qb can play well and the team lose. Happens all the time.
That's why we don't think Trent Dilfer is a better qb than Dan Marino, you enormous goof.
Sports Talk 2018: Lebron to Brady and Everything in Between
- Thread starter Town Heretic
- Start date
That's why we don't think Trent Dilfer is a better qb than Dan Marino, you enormous goof.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
According to your thinking a quarterback which guides his team to a 5-6 record could be chosen to play in the Pro Bowl over a quarterback who lead his team to a 10-6 record and then won a playoff game.
How many quarterbacks who had a 5-6 record during the regular season have ever been named to the Pro Bowl?
The answer is "none" but you turn reason on its head and assert that if Wentz, with his 5-6 record, had been healthy at the end of the season he would have been picked to play in that game over Prescott, who won 8 of the Boy's last 9 games while capturing the NFC East title and winning a play-off game.
Do you never tire of embarrassing yourself?
Yes, I'd take Marino over Dilfer, even if Dilfer played on a better team with more wins.
I don't consider having a conversation with an irrational homer embarrassing...well for me I mean.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
It is you who is irrational because you argue that if Wentz would have been healthy at the end of the season he would have been picked for the All Pro team over Prescott despite Wentz having a 5-6 record and Prescott having a 10-6 record and leading the Boys to winning the NFC East title and a play-off win over Seattle.
Yes, I'd take Marino and a poorer record over Dilfer and a better one. Because the numbers tell me what my eyes already knew, Marino was the better quarterback.
I set out literally every game played by both quarterbacks.
Despite having several more games, Dak had only 1 more td than Wentz.
Wentz had one bad game. Dak had three.
Every time Wentz had run support, he won.
Dak lost games with run support.
At the end of the year Wentz was the higher rated quarterback by every objective standard, from ESPN's revamped to the traditional ranking.
And, again, The Sporting News had Wentz well ahead of Prescott. So it's not really just me without a rooting interest arguing with a Cowboys homer. It's two objective metrics and a respected authority on the game giving you the ol stink eye of wonder.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Do you really think that the Sporting News would have actually said that if Wentz was healthy at the end of the year then he and his 5-6 record should have been chosen for the Pro Bowl instead of Prescott, who had a 10-6 record and lead the Boys to winning the NFC East title and a play-off win over Seattle?
It is impossible that they would have ever suggested such an absurd notion because they knew that they would lose all credibilty on matters of the NFL, just as you have lost your credibility by such a crazy idea.
Both Wentz and Prescott have played three seasons and Prescott played better than Wentz in 2016 and 2018. Prescott leads Wentz 2-1.
I believe you put the best available quarterback in the Pro Bowl as an alternate. That, according to the stats and The Sporting News, would have been the injured Wentz.
Said the guy who believed and said Nick Foles was the best quarterback in Philly.
lain:No, he didn't, which is why I set out the stats/ratings on them for each year.
Dak had a great rookie year. Then, without run support for much of the second year, he looked good, but not exceptional. His third year was great.
Wentz had a ho-hum rookie year. Closer to Peyton's than Marino's. Then he had a terrific second and third year. And without a legitimate number one at wide receiver or much of a running game.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
To you a 5-6 record is better than a 10-6 record! BRILLIANT!
To me Marino is better than Dilfer, even if Dilfer had a ring one time for being on a better team.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You don't seem to realize that people are named to the Pro Bowl based on how they played in a particular year.
And you think that if Wentz would have been healthy at the end of 2018 where he posted a 5-6 season that he would have been picked over Prescott for the Pro Bowl, who lead the Boys to a 10-6 record and a win over Seattle in the pay-offs. Besides that, he lead the Boys to wins in eight of the last nine games.
Your idea is pure and unblemished insanity.
So I thought I'd look at the skill positions and how they shook out last year.
I'm going to start with the quarterback position and use the traditional NFL metric for the position.
1. Brees: 74.4 comp%, 3,992 yds; 32 tds, 5 ints; 115.7 rating
2. Mahomes: 66 comp%, 5,097 yds; 50 tds, 12 ints; 113.8 rating
3. Wilson: 65.6 comp%, 3,448 yds; 35 tds, 7 ints; 110.9 rating
4. Ryan: 69.4 comp%, 4,924 yds; 35 tds, 7 ints; 108.1 rating
5. Rivers: 68.3 comp%, 4,308 yds; 32 tds, 12 ints; 105.5 rating
6. Watson: 68.3 comp%, 4,165 yds; 26 tds, 9 ints; 103.1 rating
7. Wentz: 69.6 comp%, 3,074 yds; 21 tds, 7 ints; 102.2 rating
8. Goff: 69.9 comp%, 4,688 yds; 32 tds, 12 ints; 101.1 rating
9. Fitzpatrick: 66.7 comp%, 2,366 yds; 17 tds, 12 ints; 100.4 rating
10. Cousins: 70.1 comp%, 4,298 yds; 30 tds, 10 ints; 99.7 rating
A remarkable number of quarterbacks posting a season ending rating over 100. What really surprised me is how quietly Matt Ryan put together another great year. I suspect the lack of notice (and my surprise) was mostly due to the larger, disappointing team production on the year.
Also, Brady had a pretty good year at position, well into his 40s now, and located at 12 in the top twenty.
Brady: 65.8 comp%, 4,355 yds; 29 tds, 11 ints; 97.7 rating
His numbers were mostly reduced by the picks, that were his most since 2013.
I'm going to start with the quarterback position and use the traditional NFL metric for the position.
1. Brees: 74.4 comp%, 3,992 yds; 32 tds, 5 ints; 115.7 rating
2. Mahomes: 66 comp%, 5,097 yds; 50 tds, 12 ints; 113.8 rating
3. Wilson: 65.6 comp%, 3,448 yds; 35 tds, 7 ints; 110.9 rating
4. Ryan: 69.4 comp%, 4,924 yds; 35 tds, 7 ints; 108.1 rating
5. Rivers: 68.3 comp%, 4,308 yds; 32 tds, 12 ints; 105.5 rating
6. Watson: 68.3 comp%, 4,165 yds; 26 tds, 9 ints; 103.1 rating
7. Wentz: 69.6 comp%, 3,074 yds; 21 tds, 7 ints; 102.2 rating
8. Goff: 69.9 comp%, 4,688 yds; 32 tds, 12 ints; 101.1 rating
9. Fitzpatrick: 66.7 comp%, 2,366 yds; 17 tds, 12 ints; 100.4 rating
10. Cousins: 70.1 comp%, 4,298 yds; 30 tds, 10 ints; 99.7 rating
A remarkable number of quarterbacks posting a season ending rating over 100. What really surprised me is how quietly Matt Ryan put together another great year. I suspect the lack of notice (and my surprise) was mostly due to the larger, disappointing team production on the year.
Also, Brady had a pretty good year at position, well into his 40s now, and located at 12 in the top twenty.
Brady: 65.8 comp%, 4,355 yds; 29 tds, 11 ints; 97.7 rating
His numbers were mostly reduced by the picks, that were his most since 2013.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The passer rating fails to indicate the running ability of the quarterback, as Prescott has rushed for almost twice the number of yards as Wentz and Prescott has rushed for 17 touchdowns compared to Wentz's 2.
And after Prescott finally got a number one receiver his passing rating was only marginally lower than Wentz's, less than 1%.
As quarterbacks go, Dak is a really good running back.
lain:More seriously, it's a pluss, but it isn't a quarterback skill and it is one that will shorten his career if he keeps using it. I hope he uses that athleticism to move in and without a pocket. He's not Cam. It will break him if he keeps running. It's just a matter of when, and I'd rather have him and the Boys in the serious mix. Not having Dallas relevant is bad for the NFL, like Bama not being in the college mix.
Actually he had Dez in his first year. Still a number one then, if weaker. But I love the get of Cooper.
So, with the league leading rusher keeping defenses honest and with a legitimate number one, he still didn't quite catch Wentz, who lacked either.
He did get 1 more td than Wentz out of 3 more games though.
You've got to be bursting with pride.
:mock: homerism.
Anything on the new topic? Because I'm about to seriously move on from the whole Greek period.
oly:
The NBA released it's All-Decade Team as the 2010-2019 closes...
1st Team: Stephen Curry, James Harden LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard.
So that's what...Curry at point, Harden at shooting guard, LeBron at small forward...KD at Power? Um, well...Leonard at...weak center? Otherwise it's just a favorites list.
2nd team: Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Anthony Davis, Blake Griffin, Carmelo Anthony.
3rd team: Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, Paul George, LeMarcus Aldridge, [FONT="]Giannis Antetokounmpo[/FONT]
1st Team: Stephen Curry, James Harden LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard.
So that's what...Curry at point, Harden at shooting guard, LeBron at small forward...KD at Power? Um, well...Leonard at...weak center? Otherwise it's just a favorites list.
2nd team: Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Anthony Davis, Blake Griffin, Carmelo Anthony.
3rd team: Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, Paul George, LeMarcus Aldridge, [FONT="]Giannis Antetokounmpo[/FONT]
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
This next year Wentz will have DeSean Jackon to throw to so if he doesn't do well with him and one of the top tight ends he will have no excuse if he starts out 5-6, like he did last year.
How many 5-6 quarterbacks have been named to the All Pro team?
I don't judge years by stretches, but by years. So last year only 4 games were won or lost by 3 pts. Actually, only 2 were lost. Jackson should be able to give them those two. Hopefully they'll do a better job running the football as well.
How many only play 11 games in a year? And it's a shame he couldn't have just held the ball in that Washington game. That's a gimme, with the defense shutting them out.
Meanwhile, your guy had a baaad man at your number one wr position, will be getting at least a serviceable TE back in Witten, and if they don't screw it up, have Elliot, as good as any back in the league. Top to bottom the Cowboys are primed to make a serious move.
Why is Zeke so important? Because play action was a vital part of your offense and Dak is 30% more efficient with that when Zeke is running the ball.
Just finished looking over the NFL.com's top 100 players for 2018, as selected by active NFL players. Congrats to the Eagles, as Wentz came in at 96 in spite of another injury shortened year.
Better luck next time to Dak, who didn't make the cut, but should this year, absent Jerry failing to bring Elliot back onto the playing field under contract.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The Boys have eight players in the top 100, two more than any other team. And Travis Frederick, first team All Pro, will be back this year. So you are right, the Boys are primed to make a serious move. Who do you pick to win the NFC East this year?
It's a very good team, but I'm worried about Elliot...meh, Jerry isn't stupid enough to let that go longer than it needs to go.
I do love hearing Jerry's kid poor mouthing the cap his daddy was instrumental in putting in place.
If you stay healthy and Elliot is in your backfield who is going to beat you? You have to contend with Philly, but they have a) no real running game, b) a qb who hasn't proven he can last a season, and c) an inconsistent defense, great sometimes, porous others. And the balance you can present should overwhelm all but the elite defenses.
At the outset I like the Cowboys to win the division. :think: You know, it's about time for a preseason look at who should take division crowns as it sits.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The NFL is screaming for a "new" Super Bowl. Sporting News' prediction for the 2019 season - the Cowboys beating the Chiefs in Super Bowl 54 - would be exactly that.
What better way to end the NFL's 100th season than to see the Chiefs try to win their first Super Bowl in 50 years before the Cowboys win their first in 24 years? The upcoming season is about tapping into professional football's history but also fast-forwarding to its future.
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/spo...pick-to-win-super-bowl-54-over-chiefs.436989/
What better way to end the NFL's 100th season than to see the Chiefs try to win their first Super Bowl in 50 years before the Cowboys win their first in 24 years? The upcoming season is about tapping into professional football's history but also fast-forwarding to its future.
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/spo...pick-to-win-super-bowl-54-over-chiefs.436989/
:think:
Quick picks by division...
AFC East: The Pats still have to be favored in their division. No established competition at qb, though I'll be interested in seeing if the Jets and Dolphins can give them a run. Too many unknowns not to go with Bill and his boys there.
AFC North: The Steelers are still the team to beat. It's probably overly ambitious of the Dog Pound to anticipate more than a much better team. You have an unproven coach, a lot of great pieces that need to mesh. Will be fun to watch how long it takes to see if it all works together.
AFC South: No idea. I like Watson and the Texans, but you can't overlook Indy, providing Luck is right. And Nick Foles gives an otherwise potent Jags team the end to an old excuse.
AFC West: The Chiefs, obviously, are lethal. And after a little seasoning, Mahomes should be better this year. Not better in terms of tds and rating, that was some season, but better in terms of managing the game, the pace, and the playoffs. Qb remains a question in Denver. The Chargers have an issue at RB that matters more than most seem to think. And Oakland will be trying to play spoiler, but it really depends on Carr. He'll get to make the case that he wasn't a flash in the pan, that he was victimized by his coach, to some extent, last year.
I like the Pats, Steelers, Chiefs, and Indy to win their divisions, with the Texans and Jags to take WC slots.
NFC East: You know I like the Cowboys here, though Philly should challenge barring yet another injury to Wentz, who needs to prove he can get through a season upright.
NFC North: Much rests on whether the Packers new coach can prove what many have said, that the problem with the Pack was the old coaching staff. They've gotten better on the defensive side of the ball, but the proof is in the play calling and gelling. I'll take the Bears here, warily, and only at this point. I'm not sure of Trubisky, but I'm sure of the rest and if he comes along this year it might be too much for GB. Minnesota had everything they needed and looked like a really good team that couldn't quite figure out how to be better than that.
NFC South: I'll surprise you here and say Atlanta. They've underachieved since the SB disaster and I saw Brees fade late. Now if they rest him and push Kamara more in the front of the schedule, it may well be the Saint's turn to add another argument for their signal caller as GOAT (and the argument is already there to make). Not sure if Cam and Co. are going to be ready early and that may be the difference in a tough division.
NFC West: The Rams were better than they looked in the playoffs last year, but I'm more interested in Seattle. I think they're primed. And what will the Niners look like if they can keep Garoppolo upright and healthy. People forget how good that team was looking before he went down.
I like the Boys, Bears, Falcons and Seahawks, with the Saints and Niners taking the WC