ECT Spiritual Israel?

[Lazy afternoon]

Madists have the same carnal views as did Saul BEFORE He became Paul.

Danoh's view is not proven by the fact that there is only one Shepherd of Israel and it is Christ and not David, and only one flock too--

Eze 34:22 Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle.
Eze 34:23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
Eze 34:24 And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.

Joh 10:14 I (Jesus) am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

LA

 

[George Affleck]

For example, this is a LIE.
Lying a about someones position is a dirty trick that not be part of a "Christian" treatise of any kind.

So what, in your opinion, would have happened had the Jews welcomed Jesus as the Messiah?

 

[Danoh]

Madists have the same carnal views as did Saul BEFORE He became Paul.

Danoh's view is not proven by the fact that there is only one Shepherd of Israel and it is Christ and not David, and only one flock too--

Eze 34:22 Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle.
Eze 34:23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
Eze 34:24 And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.

Joh 10:14 I (Jesus) am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

LA

Matthew 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Heck - that just can't be literal.

Luke 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

Nope, not literal either...

1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Nope, not literal either...

1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Nope...

1:29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

Nope...

1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Nope, not literal either...

1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Nope...

1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Nope - none of that is literal - none of it.

So says the ever pick and choose, books based parroting, replacementist.

Nevertheless, what saith the Scripture?

What a concept, this - "what saith the Scripture?" Rom. 4:3.

John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!

1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

No thanks, Lazy, and company, if its alright with you, I'll just take that "Israelite indeed" and his above depicted, literal, physical Israelites, at their literal word, over your books based figment of your own mind.

Rom. 5:6-8 towards you.

 

[daqq]

12 Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day’s walk from the city

Q.E.D.

Go to Zechariah to understand the implications... all else is absolutely a denial of scripture.

The mount called Olivet was divided and moved to "the sides of the north", (because the Master himself had faith like a mustard seed and the Father confirmed the word of His Servant, Matthew 17:20).

Eze 47:8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.

"And he said to me, These waters issue forth [from the northeast] toward the eastern Galilah, [the eastern quadrant of the Galilah Circle] and descend upon the Arabah, [the Arabah which is north of Yam Kinnerot] and enter into the sea, [Yam Kinnerot, "the waters of Merom"] and go forth to the sea, [Yam Kinneret, "the Sea of Galilee"] and the waters are-shall be healed."

This therefore speaks of the wilderness Sanctuary-Tabernacle, (Beit-Arabah? (Judah beyond Jordan)). See also my previous comments to EE above herein.

Madists have the same carnal views as did Saul BEFORE He became Paul.

Danoh's view is not proven by the fact that there is only one Shepherd of Israel and it is Christ and not David, and only one flock too--

Eze 34:22 Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle.
Eze 34:23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
Eze 34:24 And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.

Joh 10:14 I (Jesus) am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

LA

"David" ~ love, loved, darling, (well)beloved, doting, cherish(ed), one and only beloved, etc.
"And my Servant the Beloved(David) shall be prince among them" . . . (Eze 34:24).

Messiah is both the rhiza(root) of David and also the genos, (Rev 22:16).
In the above he essentially is David(the Beloved), for he took on the seed of Abraham, (Heb 2:16).

 

[Danoh]

Daqq, what is your take on the meaning of "a sabbath day's journey."

Acts 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Thanks

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[meshak]

How did your move go? Well, I hope. :thumb:

As for the thing about Abraham; you are not rightly dividing the two different aspects of Abraham like Paul does in Romans 4.

In the gospels those are God's people through Abraham AFTER he was given the Covenant of Circumcision.

That is Abraham in James 2, for example.

They are the same people in Early Acts and in Hebrews thru Revelation: The Circumcision (people).

In contrast to that, there is neither Circumcision nor Uncircumcision in the Body.

Those in the Body are the spiritual children of Abraham by faith - but Abraham way back BEFORE he received the Covenant of Circumcision.

Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Romans 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

That is TWO aspects of Abraham...

Acts 17:11,12.

I got all furniture moved in but the house is a big mess yet.

 

[daqq]

Daqq, what is your take on the meaning of "a sabbath day's journey."

Acts 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Thanks

Rom. 5:6-8.

Beit-Anyah is about the distance of fifteen stadia from Yeru-Shalem, that is the journey of about an hour, the journey of a Shabbat. Moreover Yohanan was immersing in Aenon by Shalem, that is, the floor of Atad which is at Shekem, going by the Way of the Sea, (for there is much water there), and that is the Way of the Sea beyond Yarden, Galilah(Circle) of the Nations, by the side-portion of Yhudah(beyond Yarden). Moreover, in the Way of the Sea beyond Yarden there is a highway that goes up to Beit-Anyah, (beneath Hermon), and there is a feast of the Yhωdim, (not Yhudim), four days in a year to lament the daughter of Yephtah who bewailed her virginity in the mountains, a statute for Yisrael from the days of Yephtah, behold, is it not the feast in Shiloh and Shalem? (lol), which is on the north side of Beit-El, on the eastern highway that goes from Beit-El to the Ridge, Shekem, which is beneath Lebonah and Hermon?

 

[Right Divider]

So what, in your opinion, would have happened had the Jews welcomed Jesus as the Messiah?

Since that was not going to happen, there is no reason to speculate.

 

[daqq]

Beit-Anyah is about the distance of fifteen stadia from Yeru-Shalem, that is the journey of about an hour, the journey of a Shabbat. Moreover Yohanan was immersing in Aenon by Shalem, that is, the floor of Atad which is at Shekem, going by the Way of the Sea, (for there is much water there), and that is the Way of the Sea beyond Yarden, Galilah(Circle) of the Nations, by the side-portion of Yhudah(beyond Yarden). Moreover, in the Way of the Sea beyond Yarden there is a highway that goes up to Beit-Anyah, (beneath Hermon), and there is a feast of the Yhωdim, (not Yhudim), four days in a year to lament the daughter of Yephtah who bewailed her virginity in the mountains, a statute for Yisrael from the days of Yephtah, behold, is it not the feast in Shiloh and Shalem? (lol), which is on the north side of Beit-El, on the eastern highway that goes from Beit-El to the Ridge, Shekem, which is beneath Lebonah and Hermon?

By the way, Danoh, I do not do that to grandstand but rather in the hope that some might "do as the Bereans" and search out at least some of what that means. If I were to try to explain everything I wrote it would take pages, and then I would be accused of grandstanding anyways, and hijacking your thread. I will therefore give you one example of why I do that:

Beit-Anyah (Bethany) = "house of affliction" = "Jerusalem of above"

Isaiah 54:11 KJV
11 O thou afflicted, [עניה - 'anyah] tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires [Rev 21:10-27].

And this is not the only passage for this particular point, (Isa 30:19-20, 51:17-23, etc.,).

 

[Danoh]

Beit-Anyah is about the distance of fifteen stadia from Yeru-Shalem, that is the journey of about an hour, the journey of a Shabbat. Moreover Yohanan was immersing in Aenon by Shalem, that is, the floor of Atad which is at Shekem, going by the Way of the Sea, (for there is much water there), and that is the Way of the Sea beyond Yarden, Galilah(Circle) of the Nations, by the side-portion of Yhudah(beyond Yarden). Moreover, in the Way of the Sea beyond Yarden there is a highway that goes up to Beit-Anyah, (beneath Hermon), and there is a feast of the Yhωdim, (not Yhudim), four days in a year to lament the daughter of Yephtah who bewailed her virginity in the mountains, a statute for Yisrael from the days of Yephtah, behold, is it not the feast in Shiloh and Shalem? (lol), which is on the north side of Beit-El, on the eastern highway that goes from Beit-El to the Ridge, Shekem, which is beneath Lebonah and Hermon?

I was asking about this...

https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/54353/what-is-a-sabbath-days-walk

And this...

https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/encyclopedia-of-the-bible/Sabbath-Days-Journey

Why was I asking about it?

Because I was reflecting on how that many years ago, back when I first began to note distinctions between things in Scripture on my own (for about a year and a half or so before I'd ever even heard of Dispensationalism), the following two passages were very early ones in my practice of that...

The following kinds of distinctions forever ruined me from being swayed by the mis-fire of men in their ever reading into a thing, and or in their equally ever endless wisdom of this world.

Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Acts 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

It struck me way back then that He had been speaking to Believing followers who would remain under the Law.

The Matthew 24:20 reference having to do with the having to hold to travel distance restrictions under the Law by an Israelite observing said restriction.

Though what allowed me to see that was the significance of the passage in Acts 1:12, and the following.

As I was reading through all that, attempting to sort out what the significance of those two passages were.

I saw it when I got to this passage...

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

I can still recall that moment as if it were a mere five minutes ago, it stuck out that brightly.

At which point my thinking was "wait a minute, Pentecost is an Israelite Feast Day, after Passover - both under THEIR Law - these people REMAINED under the Law! Acts 1:12 mentions that because they were in the midst of their Israelite Feast Days under THEIR Law! - These people remained under the Law! Wow!"

Leviticus 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover. 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. 23:7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. 23:8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. 23:9 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 23:10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. 23:12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD. 23:13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin. 23:14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD. 23:17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD. 23:18 And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the LORD, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the LORD. 23:19 Then ye shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings. 23:20 And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the LORD, with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the LORD for the priest. 23:21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations. 23:22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.

Over time, I came to understand that the Law was more than merely what the Apostle Paul points out - which was why he himself would respect it and take part in its various ways, when dealing with his fellow Israelites - because the Law was/is to be Israel's very identity in the sight of the Nation's.

1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

An Israelite's Identity In the Sight of the Nations...

Deuteronomy 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day? 4:9 Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons; 4:10 Specially the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.

And just now I was reflecting on all that once more, while reflecting on the following from the Apostle Paul about and concerning ISRAEL's fallen state in the sight of the Nations...

Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Anyway, I originally asked you, because you appear to know a lot about Israelite ways under the Law and so I thought, 'I wonder what additional light on this might ol daqq shed on it?'

It is ever really great to ever keep an open mind to where another of a different view is coming from, Acts 17:11.

Again, thanks for your input, old friend

Rom. 5:6-8 towards you.

 

[daqq]

I was asking about this...

https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/54353/what-is-a-sabbath-days-walk

And this...

https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/encyclopedia-of-the-bible/Sabbath-Days-Journey

Why was I asking about it?

Because I was reflecting on how that many years ago, back when I first began to note distinctions between things in Scripture on my own (for about a year and a half or so before I'd ever even heard of Dispensationalism), the following two passages were very early ones in my practice of that...

The following kinds of distinctions forever ruined me from being swayed by the mis-fire of men in their ever reading into a thing, and or in their equally ever endless wisdom of this world.

Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Acts 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

It struck me way back then that He had been speaking to Believing followers who would remain under the Law.

The Matthew 24:20 reference having to do with the having to hold to travel distance restrictions under the Law by an Israelite observing said restriction.

Though what allowed me to see that was the significance of the passage in Acts 1:12, and the following.

As I was reading through all that, attempting to sort out what the significance of those two passages were.

I saw it when I got to this passage...

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

I can still recall that moment as if it were a mere five minutes ago, it stuck out that brightly.

At which point my thinking was "wait a minute, Pentecost is an Israelite Feast Day, after Passover - both under THEIR Law - these people REMAINED under the Law! Acts 1:12 mentions that because they were in the midst of their Israelite Feast Days under THEIR Law! - These people remained under the Law! Wow!"

Leviticus 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover. 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. 23:7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. 23:8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. 23:9 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 23:10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. 23:12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD. 23:13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin. 23:14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD. 23:17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD. 23:18 And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the LORD, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the LORD. 23:19 Then ye shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings. 23:20 And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the LORD, with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the LORD for the priest. 23:21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations. 23:22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.

Over time, I came to understand that the Law was more than merely what the Apostle Paul points out - which was why he himself would respect it and take part in its various ways, when dealing with his fellow Israelites - because the Law was/is to be Israel's very identity in the sight of the Nation's.

1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

An Israelite's Identity In the Sight of the Nations...

Deuteronomy 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day? 4:9 Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons; 4:10 Specially the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.

And just now I was reflecting on all that once more, while reflecting on the following from the Apostle Paul about and concerning ISRAEL's fallen state in the sight of the Nations...

Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Anyway, I originally asked you, because you appear to know a lot about Israelite ways under the Law and so I thought, 'I wonder what additional light on this might ol daqq shed on it?'

It is ever really great to ever keep an open mind to where another of a different view is coming from, Acts 17:11.

Again, thanks for your input, old friend

Rom. 5:6-8 towards you.

There is so much in what you have said that I could not possibly comment on all of it in one post, but remember that there is a difference between the feasts and appointments of the Father in the Torah, (even as you have quoted, which I highlighted in red), and those of the rulers of the people, (see there? things that are different are different, lol). For one clear and easy to understand example, (though there are many), I quote the following, and please note "whose" feasts, sacrifices, and appointed times these are said to be:

Isaiah 1:10-18 KJV
10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

One thing people just cannot seem to realize is that Israel walked according to the flesh, seeing all of the Torah according to the eyes and mind of the flesh: none of it has anything to do with those things such as slain beasts, and blood spilling, and eating the cooked flesh of the innocent creation of Elohim, (and that is why he says they have blood on their hands). His Torah and His appointed times and feasts are not what He is sick of, no, but rather only "theirs", (because "theirs" were never done the way it was originally intended to begin with, (except in the days of Moses-Joshua and Ezra)). As for "a sabbath days journey" there is not anything about a "day" in that statement, what it says is "σαββατου εχον οδον", "holding to the Sabbath Way", which can mean many things. It no doubt has a deeper supernal meaning, (connected to Oulammaous which speaks of Bethel-Luz, [Oulam-Luz] and is only found in Codex Beza now, (as it has morphed into Emmauos-Emmaus, Luke 24:13)). In other words it is a visionary thing which I probably should not go into here, ("Jacob's Ladder"). Moreover the seventh yom of creation is the Shabbat hour of each and every day, it is an hour just as I suggested, (until one enters into the Shabbat for which there is no evening or morning written, lol, the Rest).

 

[daqq]

Originally Posted by Danoh
I was asking about this...

https://christianity.stackexchange.c...bath-days-walk

Lol, notice only one person was even willing to respond, and that one person would not touch the statement from Exo 16:29 with a ten-foot pole. The one thing people do not want to believe is exactly what is written in the Torah. :chuckle:

Exodus 16:29 KJV
29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

Do you suppose the disciples and apostles observed this saying or no?
And what does the Septuagint say? Could it be even more clear?

Exodus 16:29 LXX (Brenton Translation)
29 See, for the Lord has given you this day as the sabbath, therefore he has given you on the sixth day the bread of two days: ye shall sit each of you in your houses; let no one go forth from his place on the seventh day.

So what would Luke the "physician", (which could also imply "doctor of the law"), consider "holding to the Sabbath way"? That would very likely mean they never left their "houses", (lol, but you can still take a journey going up to BethEl, the house of Elohim, or BethAnyah-Bethany, or Zion in the sides of the north, or Olivet in the sides of the north). Alright, I've probably said too much already, but after all the thread is about "spiritual" Israel.

 

[turbosixx]

I was referring to Abraham as an example of that faith that he had had back when he had been a Gentile or Uncircimcision BEFORE God then entered into the Covenant of Circumcision with him, and Abraham as an example of that faith that he had back then AFTER God entered into that Covenant of Circumcision with him.

He is the SPIRITUAL father of members of the Body in the sense of that faith that he had had back when he had been in Uncircumcision - or a Gentile - BEFORE God then entered into the Covenant of Circumcision with him.

And he is BOTH the PHYSICAL and the SPIRITUAL father of the BELIEVING Remnant of Israel in that faith that he had had back then AFTER God entered into that Covenant of Circumcision with him.

They are Spiritual Israel: The Physical, but Believing Remnant of Physical Israel.

In contrast, the Body is comprised of BOTH BELIEVING Jews and Gentiles THIS SIDE of when God sealed Spiritual Israel (The Believing Remnant of Israel), and concluded the rest of that Nation under sin with the Gentiles, or Uncircimcision with them, that He might have mercy on both WITHOUT distinction, prior to His wrath, and towards His UnProphesied purpose in said New Agency - the Heavenly Realm.

Acts 17: 11, 12.

I agree with everything you have said here. The one thing I believe we will disagree on is when the body came into existence.

Could you please explain from your perspective how those on Pentecost are not in the same church as the church that is the body?

Luke 10:21

 

[turbosixx]

Well, not just the Jews, but all Israel.
But Israel as a nation has never had a generation that came to the place where they could possibly fulfill their role in blessing the nations. It can only be fulfilled when a particular generation comes to Messiah and they are empowered to do so through Abraham's singular seed, Christ.

Zec 8:13 And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen[nations/gentiles], O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong.

Could you help me to see why you believe that hasn't already happened?

Jesus sent the apostles out, Paul included, with power to confirm the message. The gospel message that all men can be saved through Christ.

 

[Danoh]

I agree with everything you have said here. The one thing I believe we will disagree on is when the body came into existence.

Could you please explain from your perspective how those on Pentecost are not in the same church as the church that is the body?

Luke 10:21

It's what I posted to daqq, hereinabove about how I came to understand the Lord's followers in Matthew thru Early Acts had remained under the Law, and why.

By the way, I'm curious - if you were to write out for yourself how you approach studying a thing out, what that look like as study principles, or rules of thumb, in written form?

I ask because I find that doing that for myself helps me to be that much more aware of them; which means I am more likely to apply them much more consciously, and also; more likely to know how I arrived at what, and or how I may have ended up off on one thing or another, that I might then address it, and so on.

Do you do any of that, is any of your approach that conscious, or do you just get in there and just go - what's your study approach?

Thanks in advance.

Rom. 14:5; 5: 6-8.

 

[Evil.Eye.*{@}*]

The mount called Olivet was divided and moved to "the sides of the north", (because the Master himself had faith like a mustard seed and the Father confirmed the word of His Servant, Matthew 17:20).



"And he said to me, These waters issue forth [from the northeast] toward the eastern Galilah, [the eastern quadrant of the Galilah Circle] and descend upon the Arabah, [the Arabah which is north of Yam Kinnerot] and enter into the sea, [Yam Kinnerot, "the waters of Merom"] and go forth to the sea, [Yam Kinneret, "the Sea of Galilee"] and the waters are-shall be healed."

This therefore speaks of the wilderness Sanctuary-Tabernacle, (Beit-Arabah? (Judah beyond Jordan)). See also my previous comments to EE above herein.



"David" ~ love, loved, darling, (well)beloved, doting, cherish(ed), one and only beloved, etc.
"And my Servant the Beloved(David) shall be prince among them" . . . (Eze 34:24).

Messiah is both the rhiza(root) of David and also the genos, (Rev 22:16).
In the above he essentially is David(the Beloved), for he took on the seed of Abraham, (Heb 2:16).

My mother was raised of a converted Jewish heritage... Mennonite, was her mother’s conversion with my grand father. My grandmother on my mom’s side was the daughter of parents that fled Nazi Germany.

My mother married a man that became a semi-Calvinist minister that exalted the Law by doctrine. My mother taught me that the Torah was the most important portion of scripture and simultaneously held a deep Spiritual Israel stance.

I’m self disclosing, because I don’t want to be the old me and slug this out with you. I respect your understanding and I theologically understand how you embrace it, as I was raised to embrace it and was fed the theology for 17 years of my life.

Instead of being a twerp... I’ll simply say thank you for your perspective. I know from past reading that you droppped out of dispensational Belief from private study and so forth. I also respect that you must follow your convictions of the Spirit of God.

I don’t have to even embrace “dispensation” to believe as I do. I simply know OT prophecy and how it binds to the Post Messianic writings.

In the end... I am fairly certain that you and I will maintain our respective stances...

What you and I agree on... is that the Son of God Died on behalf of all humanity... and Faith without Love is dead... and brother... that’s more than enough for me to respect your perspective and maintain mine.

Your old friend...

EENIG

 

[turbosixx]

It's what I posted to daqq, hereinabove about how I came to understand the Lord's followers in Matthew thru Early Acts had remained under the Law, and why.

By the way, I'm curious - if you were to write out for yourself how you approach studying a thing out, what that look like as study principles, or rules of thumb, in written form?

I ask because I find that doing that for myself helps me to be that much more aware of them; which means I am more likely to apply them much more consciously, and also; more likely to know how I arrived at what, and or how I may have ended up off on one thing or another, that I might then address it, and so on.

Do you do any of that, is any of your approach that conscious, or do you just get in there and just go - what's your study approach?

Thanks in advance.

Rom. 14:5; 5: 6-8.

Ok, I'll find that post and read it.

As for how I study. I use principles I have learned. Here is a link to some audio sermons similar to what I have learned over the years if you're interested. This preacher did a series on Keys to understanding the bible.

http://www.southportcofc.org/sermons/minister/page/3

 

[Danoh]

Ok, I'll find that post and read it.

As for how I study. I use principles I have learned. Here is a link to some audio sermons similar to what I have learned over the years if you're interested. This preacher did a series on Keys to understanding the bible.

http://www.southportcofc.org/sermons/minister/page/3

I am familiar with their teaching, as I am ever in the lookout for how others study the Scripture, ever desirous of further building on the following, Basic Three-Fold, Bible Study Principle...

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that...

1- they received the word with all readiness of mind, and...

2 - searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 17:12...

3 - Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Have you actually heard the guy you recommended, and read his notes?

Makes me wonder how much of those study videos by Jordan (on 2 Tim. 2:15's "rightly dividing" and Eph. 2: 11, 12's "Time Past;" verse 13's "But Now" and verse 7's "Ages to Come") you actually went through. :chuckle:

For Jordan basically said something very similar to your recommended teacher's "The idea is that to be a good workman with the Bible, one must follow the lines it draws and the distinctions it makes" - which Jordan then proceeded to lay out the various lines and distinctions of, on that chalk board.

Here are some of your recommended teacher's study notes...

#6- Cut Straight

“Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth.” 2Tim.2:15.

Some other versions render this as “rightly dividing” (KJV), or “rightly handling” (ESV).
By literal definition, the Greek word (orthotomeo) means “to cut straight.”

- Enhanced Strong’s Lex.

The idea is that to be a good workman with the Bible, one must follow the lines it draws and the distinctions it makes - just like the paper dolls and hitting the mark in the introduction!

#6 - Cut Straight- What lines must we “cut straight”?

“Old” vs. “New”

The Old Testament (Pentateuch, History, Kings, Earlier and Later Prophets) was about and for the physical descendants of Abraham, Gen.12:1-3 and Ex.19:1-3.

So, it never was about or for us Gentiles (non-descendants of Abraham), though we do need to know about these things, Rom.15:4 and 1Cor.10:11.

But even for Abraham’s family (the Jews), this Law had a specified and limited duration, Luke 16:16; 2Cor.3:7-11; Col.2:14.

#6 - Cut Straight- What else does this mean?
Then & There vs. Here & Now

Even within the New Testament, we still have to “cut straight” between then & there and here & now.

Don’t get ahead of or misunderstand me: the N.T. is the Law that we are under now, and will be until the end of all things.

But to understand it, we must realize that some things which happened in the early stages of Christ’s earthly kingdom (the church) no longer occur now as they did then…..

#6- Cut Straight- What else does this mean?

Then & There vs. Here & Now

A line must be “cut straight,” or “handled accurately” between then & there vs. here & now!

This is just one example that emphasizes that there are some differences that must be taken into account between then & there and here & now.

Others could be given, but time and space will just not allow for it.

Suffice it to say that if we are to understand the Bible (and we must!), then seeing and “cutting straight” such lines of distinction in text is vital.

Conclusion: What are our Keys?

Get the Big Picture
4 us not 2 us
Get the Context
Is not all, but does contain, figurative language
Many writers- one Author, and
Cut Straight

:chuckle: You pointed the wrong MAD on here to such things - I actually do read EVERYTHING, and hear out everything of everyone I am pointed in the direction of, - even if by someone with an opposing view.

In fact, many MADs I have known outside of this forum have been like that. Just as there are various indications throughout the Apostle Paul's writings that he himself had been VERY well read.

Anyway, Philip Strong (the guy you pointed me to) teaches a form of" Dispensationalism.

He might as well have repeatedly quoted these two passage throughout his notes...

Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

Or these...

1 Corinthians 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God. 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

Then again, he is basically clueless on THE Mystery unique to the Apostle Paul ALONE, Rom. 16: 25, 26; Eph. 3: 1-3; etc.

In memory of Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

 

[turbosixx]

I am familiar with their teaching, as I am ever in the lookout for how others study the Scripture, ever desirous of further building on the following, Basic Three-Fold, Bible Study Principle...

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that...

1- they received the word with all readiness of mind, and...

2 - searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 17:12...

3 - Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Have you actually heard the guy you recommended, and read his notes?

Makes me wonder how much of those study videos by Jordan (on 2 Tim. 2:15's "rightly dividing" and Eph. 2: 11, 12's "Time Past;" verse 13's "But Now" and verse 7's "Ages to Come") you actually went through. :chuckle:

For Jordan basically said something very similar to your recommended teacher's "The idea is that to be a good workman with the Bible, one must follow the lines it draws and the distinctions it makes" - which Jordan then proceeded to lay out the various lines and distinctions of, on that chalk board.

Here are some of your recommended teacher's study notes...



:chuckle: You pointed the wrong MAD on here to such things - I actually do read EVERYTHING, and hear out everything of everyone I am pointed in the direction of, - even if by someone with an opposing view.

In fact, many MADs I have known outside of this forum have been like that. Just as there are various indications throughout the Apostle Paul's writings that he himself had been VERY well read.

Anyway, Philip Strong (the guy you pointed me to) teaches a form of" Dispensationalism.

He might as well have repeatedly quoted these two passage throughout his notes...

Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

Or these...

1 Corinthians 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God. 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

Then again, he is basically clueless on THE Mystery unique to the Apostle Paul ALONE, Rom. 16: 25, 26; Eph. 3: 1-3; etc.

In memory of Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

I know Phillip personally and think highly of him.

If you remember I said I basically agree with Jordon, where I disagree is where he draws his lines.

I draw the lines where God draws them.
The law was nailed to the cross.
Jesus purchased the church with his blood.
God now speaks to us through Christ.
and so on

 

[Danoh]

I know Phillip personally and think highly of him.

If you remember I said I basically agree with Jordon, where I disagree is where he draws his lines.

I draw the lines where God draws them.
The law was nailed to the cross.
Jesus purchased the church with his blood.
God now speaks to us through Christ.
and so on

So why does Philip get to get away with "using words not found in scripture"?

Yours is too often a contradiction you are clearly unaware of (actually, one more Bible Study Principle you are clearly failing to apply with any kind of consistency).

Rom. 5:6-8.