Should the Ten Commandments be observed by all?
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
beameup
New member
All Jews (especially Messianic) should feel the need to return to Israel.
The Jews that "remain behind in Babylon" (U.S.) are excluding themselves from God's blessing.
Shalom. I am a Jew, of Israel. I wanted to be in Jerusalem for the feast, and I have never been to Israel.
Shalom.
Jacob
CherubRam
New member
The Grafted Branch of Israel.
We are a grafted BRANCH into Israel; that means that Christians are now Israel in the new covenant. The elect have become the seed of Abraham by election and not birth.
Jeremiah 31:31 "The time is coming", declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel." See also: Gen 35:10-11, Ex 20:8-10, Lev 19:34, Isa 9:3, Isa 26:15, Isa 44:5, Isa 46:13, Isa 56:3-6-8, Isa 62:2, Isa 65:15, and the examples go on.
John 1:12- "sons of God"
John 11:52- "gathering together in one the children of God."
Rom 8:14-16- "are the children of God"
2Cr 6:18- "shall be my sons and daughters"
Gal 4:5-7- "heir of God through Christ"
1John 3:2- "we should be called sons of God."
Rom 9:6-7- "they are not all Israel, which are of Israel"
Gal 4:25-30.."are the children of promise"
Gal 3:7.."which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham"
Gal 3:29.."And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
2Cr 6:16.."I will be their God and they shall be my people."
Eph 2:12-19.."That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, (enmity means hostility) [even / toward] the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of [twain / us] one new man, so making peace;
And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the [cross / stake], having slain the enmity (hostility) thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were far away, and to them that were near. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;"
1Peter 2:9. "But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, and holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of Him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:
Which in time past (were not) a people, but (are now) the people of God: which hand not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."
John 17:22.."And the glory which you gave me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one."
marhig
Well-known member
Oh I do have have a real experience with the Holy Spirit, and i also know by the Spirit that i must obey God. God wouldn't write his laws upon our hearts and in our minds of we didn't have to obey him.
Hebrews 10
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these*is, there is no more offering for sin Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,*By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And havingan high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works[2 Timothy 3
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
And our righteousness grows as Christ grows within. You can't plant a seed and then the next day the tree is in full bloom! It's gradual, and so is our life in God. If we are willing to lay down our lives and become a living sacrifice and turn from sin, then the Spirit will be giving us the strength through Christ to overcome daily, and as we die to our old self, then our old life will be gone and we will grow stronger in the Spirit and become stronger in God and the more Christ will be seen in us, and we should be living by the will of God.
If we're not overcoming our flesh, then we are still living by our will and the lusts of our flesh and not by the will of God. And our Lord Jesus said, that it is those who live by the will of God, that enter into the kingdom of heaven.
marhig
Well-known member
Jacob it's not going to Israel that is important, it's being in Israel in the Spirit, and I'm not talking about natural Israel, but spiritual Israel, those circumcised of the heart by the Spirit, and being born anew and living by the will of God. And Christ is the way the truth and the life. And he came as our perfect example to show us how to live before God.
beameup
New member
"Hebrew Roots" Movement is cultish. The Body of Christ is not Israel.
Any Jew who remains in "Babylon" (like the U.S.) is disobedient,
as the Holy Spirit Ruach Elohim is drawing Jews back to the Holy Land.
Total misunderstanding of Romans 11 leads to serious doctrinal error.
The ROOT of the Olive Tree is GOD
Natural Branches (Jews) were "broken off" the ROOT (through unbelief)
Wild Branches were "grafted in" to the ROOT (God)
Epoisses
New member
No the new covenant promise was only for the house of Judah and the house of Israel. So how did the gentiles receive the Holy Spirit with the remission of sins in the book of Acts? You have no answer for that because you only see Israel of the flesh. And if you knew anything at all there was no house of Israel in the 1st century. How does God ratify a covenant with one house missing?
Epoisses
New member
Oh I do have have a real experience with the Holy Spirit, and i also know by the Spirit that i must obey God. God wouldn't write his laws upon our hearts and in our minds of we didn't have to obey him.
Hebrews 10
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these*is, there is no more offering for sin Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,*By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And havingan high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
2 Timothy 3
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
And our righteousness grows as Christ grows within. You can't plant a seed and then the next day the tree is in full bloom! It's gradual, and so is our life in God. If we are willing to lay down our lives and become a living sacrifice and turn from sin, then the Spirit will be giving us the strength through Christ to overcome daily, and as we die to our old self, then our old life will be gone and we will grow stronger in the Spirit and become stronger in God and the more Christ will be seen in us, and we should be living by the will of God.
If we're not overcoming our flesh, then we are still living by our will and the lusts of our flesh and not by the will of God. And our Lord Jesus said, that it is those who live by the will of God, that enter into the kingdom of heaven.
If you had a real experience with the Holy Spirit all your sins would be forgiven and you would live a life of love, joy and peace. You're still in Romans 7.
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
A Christian is always called upon to do that which is righteous, which breaking the moral commandments of God is not. But there is a point sabbath cults and Judaizers don't seem to grasp that, for the Christian, there are not necessarily ten commandments:
Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Romans 14:5-10 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
More like nine commandments for the Christian, where that part of the Mosaic law is concerned, as New Testament scripture is clear that Jewish sabbath observance is optional, even mentioned in the same context as dietary laws. People who try to force sabbaths on others and judge other Christians on this basis are corrupt, in disobedience to scripture, are, indeed, Judaizers, or legalists, as many call this corrupt, cult practice. It's also fascinating that the cults never really keep the sabbath as required of Jews, the strict list of many prohibited behaviors. For instance, you find them disputing in web forums about the sabbath, on the sabbath!
On the other hand, those who claim the law is null, that a Christian can be a liar, an adulterer, an idolater, et al, that moral law was done away with, know less than nothing of New Testament scripture, which is clear on repentance and righteousness. The entire Holy Bible is a treatise on the Holiness of God and dead seriousness against sin. The easy believism crowd doesn't like that word, repentance, think they can have a big helping of grace, and skip on the obedience part, have a big helping of a Savior, and skip on the Lord part. In essence, these verses do not sink in:
John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
They miss the meaning of these verses, somehow, especially the MUST part of worshiping God in spirit and truth: it's not MAY BE A GOOD IDEA to worship in spirit and in truth, or OPTIONALLY worship in spirit and truth, one foot in hell. Doesn't work. Matthew 7:21-27, Luke 6:39-49. It actually seems quite ridiculous, this concept there's no new creature required, 2 Corinthians 5:17, that one can be Christian and lawless in a moral sense. That's just unrepentance, double-mindedness, fake faith.
You know what the biggest problem with all Christendom is? That many do not realize there's a Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and it's not a Chinese menu, where you choose the scripture you like and ignore the rest. Somehow, there seems to be this notion God dictated far too many superfluous pages, that, as if, the New Testament could be a pamphlet, and God's verbose, doesn't mean it all, is being chatty or something? Do you call a jigsaw puzzle complete, after finding a dozen pieces? You'd say, "Of course not!" To that, anyway.
Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Romans 14:5-10 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
More like nine commandments for the Christian, where that part of the Mosaic law is concerned, as New Testament scripture is clear that Jewish sabbath observance is optional, even mentioned in the same context as dietary laws. People who try to force sabbaths on others and judge other Christians on this basis are corrupt, in disobedience to scripture, are, indeed, Judaizers, or legalists, as many call this corrupt, cult practice. It's also fascinating that the cults never really keep the sabbath as required of Jews, the strict list of many prohibited behaviors. For instance, you find them disputing in web forums about the sabbath, on the sabbath!
On the other hand, those who claim the law is null, that a Christian can be a liar, an adulterer, an idolater, et al, that moral law was done away with, know less than nothing of New Testament scripture, which is clear on repentance and righteousness. The entire Holy Bible is a treatise on the Holiness of God and dead seriousness against sin. The easy believism crowd doesn't like that word, repentance, think they can have a big helping of grace, and skip on the obedience part, have a big helping of a Savior, and skip on the Lord part. In essence, these verses do not sink in:
John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
They miss the meaning of these verses, somehow, especially the MUST part of worshiping God in spirit and truth: it's not MAY BE A GOOD IDEA to worship in spirit and in truth, or OPTIONALLY worship in spirit and truth, one foot in hell. Doesn't work. Matthew 7:21-27, Luke 6:39-49. It actually seems quite ridiculous, this concept there's no new creature required, 2 Corinthians 5:17, that one can be Christian and lawless in a moral sense. That's just unrepentance, double-mindedness, fake faith.
You know what the biggest problem with all Christendom is? That many do not realize there's a Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and it's not a Chinese menu, where you choose the scripture you like and ignore the rest. Somehow, there seems to be this notion God dictated far too many superfluous pages, that, as if, the New Testament could be a pamphlet, and God's verbose, doesn't mean it all, is being chatty or something? Do you call a jigsaw puzzle complete, after finding a dozen pieces? You'd say, "Of course not!" To that, anyway.
Your quote is different from what Paul actually said.
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
Well, that’s from the King James Holy Bible, which is universally considered of the finest Bibles. If you have a verse that indicates you shouldn’t believe your lying eyes what is in God’s word, have at it. But, as it stands, nebulous, one-liner, false claims that Paul didn’t say what he clearly said does not cut it, nor is such hit and run, vacuous disputing of any value, like trolling is of no value.
If it’s simply a matter you’re of some cult, spit it out. Or, provide a link to a mainstream church that believes those verses are not true which you subscribe to. If you’re a Judaizer, of a sabbath cult, just say so, that you don’t agree with the New Testament or mainstream Christianity the past couple millennium, spare people any further nebulous, argumentative drivel you don’t even explain, that, in fact, disputes Paul. Fair enough?
And, please, I don't do endless disputes with cults, perfer to agree to disagree and stick to the clear word of God of scripture, sans the writings of all the usual suspects in the universe of lying false prophets.
Shalom.
I am not saying what you are saying.
I am of Israel. I am a convert, a proselyte of Israel.
I do not know that Gentiles are grafted into Israel. I do not see that in scripture, the Bible.
Shalom.
Jacob
Shalom.
I wanted to be in Jerusalem for the feast. There are three times per year that all men are to be in Jerusalem.
Shalom.
Jacob
Shalom.
I am a Jew. I am of Israel.
I am not Hebrew Roots, even if you misunderstand. Also, about grafting in... I believe that you have the wrong idea. I do not believe it comes from scripture.
Shalom.
Jacob
Shalom.
The new covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. I believe that it came in Yeshua Messiah, Yeshua HaMashiach.
Shalom.
Jacob
CherubRam
New member
[FONT="]Branch Of The Lord[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Isaiah 4:2[/FONT]
[FONT="]In that day the Branch of the Lord will be beautiful and glorious[/FONT][FONT="], and the fruit of the land will be the pride and glory of the survivors in Israel. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Isaiah 11:1[/FONT]
[FONT="]A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Jeremiah 23:5[/FONT]
[FONT="]“The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Jeremiah 33:15[/FONT]
[FONT="]“‘In those days and at that time I will make a righteous Branch sprout from David’s line; he will do what is just and right in the land. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Zechariah 3:8[/FONT]
[FONT="]“‘Listen, High Priest Joshua, you and your associates seated before you, who are men symbolic of things to come: I am going to bring my servant, the Branch.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Romans 11:17[/FONT]
[FONT="]If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Romans 11:19[/FONT]
[FONT="]You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Romans 11:23[/FONT]
[FONT="]And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Romans 11:24[/FONT]
[FONT="]After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree![/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]John 15:1[/FONT]
[FONT="]“I am the true vine,[/FONT][FONT="] and my Father is the gardener. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]John 15:4[/FONT]
[FONT="]Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]John 15:5[/FONT]
[FONT="]“I am the vine; you are the branches.[/FONT][FONT="] If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
Nice rant, but the words in italics were added by the translators. That's why they are in italics, they are not in the text from which the translation was made.
:carryon:
Epoisses
New member
People who try to foist the other nine commandments on Christians are just as dangerous. The Holy Spirit is our guide from right and wrong and he is only about a thousand times better at it then a block of stone. I do not physically have to try and keep the commandments which is Galatianism.