Should homosexuals be given the death penalty?

[kmoney]

Let me ask you something kmoney? Since it says to obey the laws of the land in the NT, do you have enough faith in God to belief that He instituted that we have laws for murder, theft, rape? I do. If we didn't have these laws to incarcerate these people doing these "crimes", none of us would be brave enough to go outside our front doors. There would be murderers, rapists, thieves everywhere....more then now. What is a homosexual going to do but live their lives in sin with their partner? I'm not fearful of going outside my front door to face homo's, lol. Like I stated previously, there are two down the street from me.
Murder, theft, rape are crimes. God gave us enough "brain wave activity" to know that this is so. Therefore we have courts that call them crimes, and juries who do the sentencing. Homosexuality is a sin of the flesh.

I just think you're being inconsistent. At least if you're using the NT to say murder, rape, and theft should be crimes. It sounds like you're saying what we have as crimes is basically up to us now. Although what you said also made it seem like God had us institute certain crimes. Is that true? Because we also have laws that make abortion legal. Did God institue that also? How do you know which laws God instituted and which laws weren't from God?

I just feel that you're not being consistent. I tihnk you basically should just say that what crimes we have is up to us.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Does Paul ever explicitly say we should use the death penalty?

This is what it says in Romans 1:28-32 ~ And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
It is talking about another time since it says "gave them over", not has given them over. I'm thinking that it may have been Sodom and Gemorrah, but not sure. It says this right before the reprobate mind...Rom 1:23 ~ And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Sounds like another time to me.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

I just think you're being inconsistent. At least if you're using the NT to say murder, rape, and theft should be crimes. It sounds like you're saying what we have as crimes is basically up to us now. Although what you said also made it seem like God had us institute certain crimes. Is that true? Because we also have laws that make abortion legal. Did God institue that also? How do you know which laws God instituted and which laws weren't from God?

I just feel that you're not being consistent. I tihnk you basically should just say that what crimes we have is up to us.

I'm not being inconsistant. God expects all of us to do what is right or righteousness to prevail. As it is now, we have perverted laws or no laws for certain things. I certainly believe in laws against abortion, that's murder!!! God did give us all brains to know if something is right or wrong, and we as Christians know that abortion is murder....well some of us anyway. Yes, it is up to us now. We have freewill to do righteousness or evilness. The bible says to pray for our leaders. Are we??? Maybe it's our fault for not praying for righteousness to prevail. It sure isn't God's fault what we have going on now, so who's is it?

 

[Lighthouse]

Does Paul ever explicitly say we should use the death penalty?

There is a place where he says that if he is guilty of a crime worthy of death then he deserves death. So if he condones it for himself, why not others?

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

There is a place where he says that if he is guilty of a crime worthy of death then he deserves death. So if he condones it for himself, why not others?

I posted it up above. This is talking about another people and time. Not now.

 

[Lighthouse]

I posted it up above. This is talking about another people and time. Not now.

WRONG!

That is not the verse I was referring to. Nor is that verse merely referring to a previous time. Those things are worthy of death, always. And, seeing as how Sodom and Gommorrah happened before the law was given to Moses, you have once again failed to show that homosexuality was only worthy of death when that law was in place.

Do you also think that it should have only been a crime in Israel, too? What about child molestation? That's not a capital crime in the US. Do you think it should be? Kidnapping? I think they should be. What do you say? What does God say?

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

WRONG!

That is not the verse I was referring to. Nor is that verse merely referring to a previous time. Those things are worthy of death, always. And, seeing as how Sodom and Gommorrah happened before the law was given to Moses, you have once again failed to show that homosexuality was only worthy of death when that law was in place.

Do you also think that it should have only been a crime in Israel, too? What about child molestation? That's not a capital crime in the US. Do you think it should be? Kidnapping? I think they should be. What do you say? What does God say?

You are so confused Lighthouse. Show me in the NT where it says that all of these things, including homosexuality has a death sentence NOW.

 

[Lighthouse]

You are so confused Lighthouse. Show me in the NT where it says that all of these things, including homosexuality has a death sentence NOW.

There ios nothing, anywhere in the Bible, that says any of those things currently has a death sentence. But there's plenty that say they should. Of course, what I'm seeing here is that you don't believe child molesters should be executed. You probably don't think rapists should either. That's sad. I'm not even going to ask if you think abortion should legally be considered murder, and carry the death penalty. I know you're just going to say, "No."

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

There ios nothing, anywhere in the Bible, that says any of those things currently has a death sentence.

I rest my case!!

But there's plenty that say they should.

Should an actually saying that there is are two diferent things.

Of course, what I'm seeing here is that you don't believe child molesters should be executed.

It's not what I think, but what Jesus did on the cross. Child molesters will get it on the last day also, if they don't repent.

You probably don't think rapists should either.That's sad.

It doesn't matter what I think Lighthouse..even though I believe that rape and child molestation are horrible crimes.

I'm not even going to ask if you think abortion should legally be considered murder, and carry the death penalty. I know you're just going to say, "No."

If you had read my reply to kmoney, I said that I believe that abortion is murder. We have laws for murderers, just not that one yet. Now I would go for a law not allowing murdering babies, but we have none. They will get it on the last day also.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

LH,

Where in the NT does it say that homosexuality still carries the death penalty?

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

LH,

Where in the NT does it say that homosexuality still carries the death penalty?

:wave: Hi, how is life these days? It doesn't say it anywhere in the NT. People have been listening to Enyart to much instead of reading the Word with any understanding!!!

 

[Lighthouse]

I rest my case!!

No you don't, you moron. I am saying that there is nothing in the Bible saying anything about what is currently the law of today, because the Bible was written before today.:duh:

Should an actually saying that there is are two diferent things.

What?

It's not what I think, but what Jesus did on the cross. Child molesters will get it on the last day also, if they don't repent. It doesn't matter what I think Lighthouse..even though I believe that rape and child molestation are horrible crimes. If you had read my reply to kmoney, I said that I believe that abortion is murder. We have laws for murderers, just not that one yet. Now I would go for a law not allowing murdering babies, but we have none. They will get it on the last day also.

You are an enemy of people, and an enemy of God.

 

[Lighthouse]

LH,

Where in the NT does it say that homosexuality still carries the death penalty?

Do you mean to ask, "Where in the NT does it say that homosexuality should still carry the death penalty?" Because, obviously, as we've already established, it doesn't carry the death penalty today. Not in any laws I've seen.:duh:

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

No you don't, you moron. I am saying that there is nothing in the Bible saying anything about what is currently the law of today, because the Bible was written before today.:duh:

Duh yourself. You don't think that God knew the future? I guess He did since the bible is just full of "in the last days", and tells us about the future.

What?

You said that there are plenty that say they should (scripture) regarding the death penalty. I said, should an actually saying that there is are two diferent things.

You are an enemy of people, and an enemy of God.

People? So what!! God, I seriously doubt it. I don't hang onto the word of Enyart like you do, but the word of God.

 

[Lighthouse]

Duh yourself. You don't think that God knew the future? I guess He did since the bible is just full of "in the last days", and tells us about the future.

No, I don't. What do you think the open view is? Do you read any of the other threads on TOL? And why is it that the only things God ever knows about the future are His plans, and not the plans of men? Excepting for knowing what someone would most likely do in a given situation?:think:

You said that there are plenty that say they should (scripture) regarding the death penalty. I said, should an actually saying that there is are two diferent things.

So? Whether or not things should be is the issue, not whether or not they are. Why is that so hard for you to understand?!

People? So what!! God, I seriously doubt it. I don't hang onto the word of Enyart like you do, but the word of God.

You are the enemy of people in that you are the enemy of the innocent. You don't think child molesters deserve the death penalty. And Enyart knows the word of God. It is you who do not know how to rightly divide the word of truth. And you obviously do not know the Word.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

No, I don't. What do you think the open view is? Do you read any of the other threads on TOL? And why is it that the only things God ever knows about the future are His plans, and not the plans of men? Excepting for knowing what someone would most likely do in a given situation?:think:

Yes, I have read other topics on TOL. They have about the same mindset as this one does, and the same people. God knows the future right down to mans evilness and His thoughts. He does know our thoughts!! I think that the only thing that He doesn't know is who is going to accept His Son, and that is only because He gave us freewill.

So? Whether or not things should be is the issue, not whether or not they are. Why is that so hard for you to understand?!

I have no trouble understanding what has been fulfilled through Christ. You are totally blinded to living in those old laws in the OT, and haven't come over totally to the new covenant.

You are the enemy of people in that you are the enemy of the innocent. You don't think child molesters deserve the death penalty.

Quit putting words in my mouth Brandon. I never said that. They do deserve death, but if it isn't our law to execute them, then God will on the last day..if they don't repent.

And Enyart knows the word of God.

According to what he wants to believe...not what God actually said for the NT.

It is you who do not know how to rightly divide the word of truth. And you obviously do not know the Word.

I just read this article by your hero, and he omits one very important thing...the laws were fulfilled in Christ!!!

http://www.theologyonline.com/DEATH.HTML

The Mosaic law was still in effect in the New Testament according to Jesus:

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets... Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great..." Mat. 5:17-19
And Jesus said to him, "See that you tell no one; but go your way, show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded as a testimony to them." Mat. 8:4
"The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do..." Mat. 23:2-3
[Jesus said,] "Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? ... Moses therefore gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the law of Moses should not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath?" John 7:19-23

I refuse to be under the curse, but you can if you so desire by living in the OT laws.
Gal 3:13 ~ Christ hath redeemed us from the CURSE of the LAW, being made a CURSE for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
At His death on the cross, the laws were fulfilled in Him!!!!

 

[Army of One]

Does Paul ever explicitly say we should use the death penalty?

I think Romans 13 is explicit.

Rom 13:4 "For he [the governing authorities] is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil."

The sword was not used for spanking. It was used to execute criminals. Also the verse that Lighthouse referred to in Acts 25:11 where Paul proclaimed, "For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving of death, I do not object to dying; but if there is nothing in these things of which these men accuse me, no one can deliver me to them. I appeal to Caesar."

Also, a verse that BMN might find interesting, since she seems to presume that the Law died with Christ on the cross:

"But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine," (1 Timothy 1:8-10)

 

[Granite]

There ios nothing, anywhere in the Bible, that says any of those things currently has a death sentence. But there's plenty that say they should. Of course, what I'm seeing here is that you don't believe child molesters should be executed. You probably don't think rapists should either. That's sad. I'm not even going to ask if you think abortion should legally be considered murder, and carry the death penalty. I know you're just going to say, "No."

This comment makes zero sense: there's nothing in the Bible that says these are capital offenses, but you're taking the word of other people--not the Bible--on this issue? Maybe you can clarify.

 

[kmoney]

I think Romans 13 is explicit.

Rom 13:4 "For he [the governing authorities] is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil."

The sword was not used for spanking. It was used to execute criminals. Also the verse that Lighthouse referred to in Acts 25:11 where Paul proclaimed, "For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving of death, I do not object to dying; but if there is nothing in these things of which these men accuse me, no one can deliver me to them. I appeal to Caesar."

I've always disagreed that these verses are specifically talking about the death penalty.

Also, a verse that BMN might find interesting, since she seems to presume that the Law died with Christ on the cross:

"But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine," (1 Timothy 1:8-10)

I don't know what BMN will do with that. :idunno:

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

I don't know what BMN will do with that. :idunno:

I didn't say that the law died on the cross. He fulfilled all of those laws in Himself on the cross because none of us could ever be good enough to be in right standing with God. You have to take the Word as a whole, not just this one scripture, but the whole chapter. We have laws for murderers, kidnappers etc. If you will notice though, this verse says sinners also. We were all lost in sin until we acepted Christ. Should we have been executed also? YES!! That wouldn't have left anyone to be saved, or to be saved now though if these OT laws were in place. You have to read that whole chapter kmoney to understand what Paul was saying.......

1st Tim 1:12-16 ~ And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: (He deserved death under the law)but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14) And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16 Howbeit for this cause (What cause??? Paul was a horrible sinner...chief sinner) I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
In other words, Paul is saying that the law was good for these sins and crimes listed in your verse if they are used lawfully, but now it is is grace, longsuffering, and mercy through Christ. Paul was the first one who received mercy and grace instead of death under the law through Christ. He should have been executed for his crimes.
Like I have stated repeatedly, we obey the laws of the land that we have, but the OT laws had no mercy, grace, or longsuffering. I firmly believe that we do not have some laws just because of this, and God stated that He would judge on the last day.