Should homosexuals be given the death penalty?

[shilohproject]

Jesus was not elevating lust to the level of a capital crime...

I believe that Jesus was illustrating that none of us is able to reach the bar on our own, thereby showing one and all our need for humility and mercy.

 

[Gerald]

Yes they should be executed, swiftly and painfully so. Every last one of them.

How much effort would you be willing to expend to find them all?

What kind of reward would you offer for people to hand over anyone they suspected of being a homosexual? Remember that gratitude don't pay the rent... :greedy:

 

[Jadespring]

A timeout? You really taught him a lesson. I bet he never bites anyone ever again.

Actually. It works quite well thanks.

It's called learning what is and is not acceptable behavior. You behave a certain way and you get punished for it. Isn't that exactly what you are trying to accomplished by asking for the death penalty for homosexual behavior? Have sex with a man, you get a time out. Except this time is permanent.

Our law and jail system are based on this basic theory of human behavior. Else their would be no point in ever putting any criminal in jail (timeout) only to let them out again. We hope that they have learned not to do it again. But hey if you don't agree with jail maybe we should ust start killing all people.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

Yes they should be executed, swiftly and painfully so. Every last one of them.

:yawn:

 

[Jadespring]

After I obliterated your false ideas in post # 537, all you can come up with is your inability to define what adultery is? I was simply pointing out that you ignored the fact that it is one of the 10 commandments. Get a clue.

How about addressing the rest of the post that proves you both ignorant of civil obedience, and anything concerning the gospel..

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=950279&postcount=537

Thanks I have a clue and again you failed to understand by post and subsequent clarification. Thanks but I'm well aware that adultery is one of the Ten. Again reread for clarification.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

Sozo, why do you resort to personal insults? Can't you stay on topic?

Usually, people only resort to personal insults when they have run out of arguments.

Just had to put my two pence in!

I'm trying to not post on this thread, but I am interested in what you guys are saying. Keep arguing guys!

:devil:

 

[ApologeticJedi]

To me, having a homosexual orientation and "acting on it" are 2 different things... NO, I do not believe that homosexuals (orientation or behavior) should get the death penalty

Then wasn't it foolish of you to bring up the dichotomy?
If it doesn’t matter whether it is the act or the sickness, then what does it matter the distinction?

Your were trying to water down the issue. We weren't talking about executing people for what they think, but what they do. Just as we shouldn't charge people for being addicted to alcohol or drugs when they don't act on it. Being sick in the head, and acting on that sickness are two different things for sure, but no one is talking about that. It is a strawman.

If the argument of "death penalty" comes from the Bible, then is it not basically based on the OT?

Somewhat. There are plenty of New Testament passages that support it as well. However, just because it is in the Old Testament doesn't invalidate it. It is the same God in the New Testament as that wrote the Old.

There are valid reasons we do not keep some of the rules in the Old Testament. But many are binding even today.

I thought Christians are not to live under that Law.

We are not talking about Christian living.

Not all homosexuals are Christians. The New Testament teaches that the world is still under the law. That Christians are not, does not mean that we shouldn’t still punish criminal acts … even if Christians commit them. Because Christianity is a matter of the orientation, not behavior – and as you pointed out - behavior, and not orientation, should be dealt with. Just stay consistent to your own points and you would have arrived at this.

Jesus Christ advocated violating some of these in favor of putting people above rules (Example: Jesus declares ALL foods clean (Mark 7:18-19)).

Jesus didn’t declare all foods clean to Jews. Jesus wasn’t advocating people to abandon the mosaic law here. There is no statement here that people should begin eating pork.

However, he does point out that the command to abstain from certain foods is really symbolic. I would agree that symbolic commands should not be kept today or enforced today. However “do not murder”, “do not steal”, and “do not commit homosexuality” are moral truths and should be kept as crimes.

"Abominations" were connected with the breaking of several different rules (e.g. eating certain animals). Not sure if that resulted in the death penalty.

It was an abomination to move your neighbor’s property marker. That should still be a crime today. There is a bad line of thinking taught in homosexual churches that the word “abomination” moves it out of the realm of a moral command. That is simply not true.

 

[Jadespring]

Alright I'm responding to your post even though it takes things way off the topic at hand.
To save you time I'm give you a quick synposis of what appear to be the blatent misconceptions about what I was speaking about. So okay lets simplify...

I am not against punishment for crime. Never was, never will be.
There are different levels of punishment for different crimes.
I am against the death penalty for the particular issue at hand.
The arguements are specifically directed to the issue of homosexuality and the death penalty.

So now for fun, lets wade in....

That is a pretty broad statement. Does that apply to ALL choices in the bedroom? Is it okay to rape, murder, molest, commit adultery, beastiality, etc.?

What do all of these have to do with the "bedroom' in the context of what we are discussing? Is your world so completely black and white? This is a ridiculous statement and says more about you not being able to make the distinction as me.
Though perhaps my 'bedroom' is just way less interesting then yours.

Too far? So your answer to sinful aberrant behavior is that it's okay to warn people of hell, but other than that they can basically do whatever they choose?

Wow now we're generalising...How did we get from just 'sex' stuff to all behavior.

And yah. It's called free will. Are you God or something? Do you think it's feasible to beat and bash Christ into people?
Do you think people will actually come to a proper understanding of the Gospel by being forced under threat of death and violent punishment? Do you actually care if they do or is all about cleaning everything?

It hasn't worked before in history. Why now?

And if you are really concerned about people going to hell over this issue why on earth would you put them to death and send them there sooner rather then later. Do you think death is the answer for all sinful aberrant behavior?
Remember we're talking about punishment for homesexual behavior here, not everything and everything under the sun. (see synposis above)

What does sharing the gospel have to do with the subject at hand?

By this reply I'm not even sure you understand the subject at hand.

Are you suggesting that police officers start handing out tracts instead of tickets for speeding through stop signs?

And lets go even further on a tangent.....
I'm really having trouble following what the heck you are trying to say..
But hey I'll give it a shot.

No actually I believe that since speeding is a such an aberrant and that sin must be dealt with swiftly and prcisely and that since police officer *obviously* have such absolute knowledge of the law and the will of the word that they should be shot. Forget all this talking blah blah crap.
If you don't get it. "BLAMO!!!"

Really? I guess you think the course of action in WWII should have been showering Nazi Germany with gospel tracts while they were feeding the incinerators. Do you?

Ah cool. The Nazi/holocard. I thought that it was the 'left' that did that.
(see synposis for answer)

Now I could go many many places with this particular topic such as asking the question of what sort of behavior and thought processes in German society allowed it to take place, the connection to anti-semitism that came straight outta Christiandom and the Bible, the demonization and devaluation of specific groups of people, the US's and most others countries refusal to take in people fleeing the horror because they were Jewish and oh yes...

Homosexuals they were rounded up too (along with gypsies, disabled, mentally challenged etc etc), stuck in the camps and killed just for *gasp* being homosexual.

My my. How horrible. I'm realy glad that the good people of the West understood how wrong this was and did something about it.

Aren't you?

Apparently the whole idea of punishment to maintain a civil society is antiquated in your world. Paul's statement concerning the authority of God in governing a nation is simply old school to you, right?

Nope and nope. (see synposis)

But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil.

Perhaps you just think that Paul wanted us to use a sword to administer spankings, or are you against those also?

He was talking about Christ. I have an issue with thinking that I am Jesus. Though I don't have a problem telling people about what Paul says will happen if they do bad.
Also there is nothing in this passage that says that Paul is refering to a 'literal' sword with sharp edges. Ever heard of metaphor? Jesus used it all the time....

Did Paul actually go out and kill people? Perhaps I am ignorant of the NT... :think:

Though I can understand why someone with your views would want or need to believe that advenger Christians should carry swords around. Do they sell them down where you live?

Nothing. We are all guilty before God and need to humble ourselves, and be forgiven of our sins through faith in Christ. Should we then also be exempt from punishment if we decide we don't like our co-workers and take them out with a shotgun? I'll bet he's cheering on your message! You mean like Adultery?

Again see synposis. Never said there shouldn't be punishment for bad things. And yeah in terms of advocating the death penalty for this particular issue... back at you on the Satan remark.

Paul actually revealed in Romans 1:18-32 that homosexual behavior is the apex of ALL evil. It is the one thing that reveals the heart of man as having turned from God to self-indulgence and is manifested in an array of evil behavior.

No he didn't, or at least how you are interpreting it. Your interpretation and understanding of the context of this passage is faulty.
Try doing some study on who Paul was talking too and what Paul was talking about.

Also Paul said a heck of a lot more about all the mamby pamby love and forgiveness stuff as well. Gotta reconcile all of those passages together to make sense of the entire message me thinks.
But oh yes...Love equals killing. I forgot.
So simple...perhaps I'll make a new bumper sticker.



But anyways for the sake of this arguement I'll take it literally for the words on the page.

Do you advocate instituting capital punishment for every item in this list?

And if so what would you use as qualifications for each item so we know when it's justified to start hacking away at all those evil people?

 

[shilohproject]

...homosexual churches...

I know what a homosexual man is. I know what a homosexual woman is. What is a "homosexual church?"

 

[Jadespring]

I know what a homosexual man is. I know what a homosexual woman is. What is a "homosexual church?"

:dizzy:

Churches of the same denom getting together and liking it?

 

[shilohproject]

Weird, when I first read that (clever, BTW) I transposed it in my eye. It read: Churches of the same demon getting together... :chuckle:

 

[Jadespring]

Weird, when I first read that (clever, BTW) I transposed it in my eye. It read: Churches of the same demon getting together... :chuckle:

:chuckle:

 

[Army of One]

Homosexuals they were rounded up too (along with gypsies, disabled, mentally challenged etc etc), stuck in the camps and killed just for *gasp* being homosexual.

Germany also punished murderers and thieves. Should we automatically do the opposite of everything the Nazis did? Of course not. Wicked people and wicked governments still occasionally do some things right.

He was talking about Christ. I have an issue with thinking that I am Jesus. Though I don't have a problem telling people about what Paul says will happen if they do bad.
Also there is nothing in this passage that says that Paul is refering to a 'literal' sword with sharp edges. Ever heard of metaphor? Jesus used it all the time....

Please actually read (or re-read) this passage in Romans 13. Paul was most certainly not talking about Jesus bearing a sword. He was refering to the government and their role of punishing criminals (and would you like to guess what type of punishment a sword was used for?).

Did Paul actually go out and kill people? Perhaps I am ignorant of the NT... :think:

Of course he didn't, since he did not have the authority to execute justice like that (just as we as individuals do not). Again, he was describing the governing authorities' use of the sword.

Though I can understand why someone with your views would want or need to believe that advenger Christians should carry swords around. Do they sell them down where you live?

Actually, I prefer my Glock to any sword.

Also Paul said a heck of a lot more about all the mamby pamby love and forgiveness stuff as well. Gotta reconcile all of those passages together to make sense of the entire message me thinks.
But oh yes...Love equals killing. I forgot.
So simple...perhaps I'll make a new bumper sticker.

Again, why do make this sarcastic remark? You're not advocating loving them, rather you are advocating locking them away in prison. The last time I checked, that wasn't very loving either.

 

[Army of One]

Then wasn't it foolish of you to bring up the dichotomy?
If it doesn’t matter whether it is the act or the sickness, then what does it matter the distinction?

Your were trying to water down the issue. We weren't talking about executing people for what they think, but what they do. Just as we shouldn't charge people for being addicted to alcohol or drugs when they don't act on it. Being sick in the head, and acting on that sickness are two different things for sure, but no one is talking about that. It is a strawman.




Somewhat. There are plenty of New Testament passages that support it as well. However, just because it is in the Old Testament doesn't invalidate it. It is the same God in the New Testament as that wrote the Old.

There are valid reasons we do not keep some of the rules in the Old Testament. But many are binding even today.




We are not talking about Christian living.

Not all homosexuals are Christians. The New Testament teaches that the world is still under the law. That Christians are not, does not mean that we shouldn’t still punish criminal acts … even if Christians commit them. Because Christianity is a matter of the orientation, not behavior – and as you pointed out - behavior, and not orientation, should be dealt with. Just stay consistent to your own points and you would have arrived at this.



Jesus didn’t declare all foods clean to Jews. Jesus wasn’t advocating people to abandon the mosaic law here. There is no statement here that people should begin eating pork.

However, he does point out that the command to abstain from certain foods is really symbolic. I would agree that symbolic commands should not be kept today or enforced today. However “do not murder”, “do not steal”, and “do not commit homosexuality” are moral truths and should be kept as crimes.



It was an abomination to move your neighbor’s property marker. That should still be a crime today. There is a bad line of thinking taught in homosexual churches that the word “abomination” moves it out of the realm of a moral command. That is simply not true.

SPOTD :first:

 

[Jadespring]

Again, why do make this sarcastic remark? You're not advocating loving them, rather you are advocating locking them away in prison. The last time I checked, that wasn't very loving either.

Yes I get that in your mind it's more loving to just get rid of people once and for all.
How about you explain your reasoning behind love in this case equals killing.

 

[Jadespring]

Germany also punished murderers and thieves. Should we automatically do the opposite of everything the Nazis did? Of course not. Wicked people and wicked governments still occasionally do some things right.

:vomit:
If I am reading this correctly and what you are saying is that what happened in WWII was in anyway justified....

You make me ill. What more abhorrent acts of genocide will you twist to meet your religiously justified bigotry?

Do you not realize that it is talk like this that started that whole thing in the first place?
Pattern for pattern it's the same...

Who and what is next? Do you agree that all of the acts in that list are capital offenses?

This conversation is over. It's quite obviously that their is no possibility to get anywhere on this one.

 

[Army of One]

Yes I get that in your mind it's more loving to just get rid of people once and for all.
How about you explain your reasoning behind love in this case equals killing.

That's just it. I'm not pretending that the death penalty would be a "loving" punishment. But the form of punishment you advocate is not loving or merciful either, so it's a bit nonsensical (and I dare say, hypocritical) for you to criticize me on those grounds.

 

[Jadespring]

That's just it. I'm not pretending that the death penalty would be a "loving" punishment. But the form of punishment you advocate is not loving or merciful either, so it's a bit nonsensical (and I dare say, hypocritical) for you to criticize me on those grounds.

I never once advocated putting homosexuals in jail.

The jail issue came up from some discussion about punishment in general, that stemed from people saying that they should be killed. If you are not one of the people that believes they should then why the heck are you arguing about it?

 

[Army of One]

:vomit:
If I am reading this correctly and what you are saying is that what happened in WWII was in anyway justified....

No, I simply pointed out that your argument was fallacious. You have to do more to argue against the punishment of homosexuals than merely say, "well Hitler did it, so it must be wrong".

You make me ill. What more abhorrent acts of genocide will you twist to meet your religiously justified bigotry?

Once again you have completely misinterpretted what I was stating. Please, aquire some comprehension skills. They can serve you well in life.

Do you not realize that it is talk like this that started that whole thing in the first place?
Pattern for pattern it's the same...

Talk like what? What in the world are you referring to?

Who and what is next? Do you agree that all of the acts in that list are capital offenses?

Of course I don't. Stop jumping to idiotic conclusions, and stop trying to read things into my posts that aren't there.

This conversation is over. It's quite obviously that their is no possibility to get anywhere on this one.

Well, maybe it's best that this conversation is over, since you can't seem to read my posts without inserting ideas into them that I never implied. I've presented easily understandable ideas in this thread, and yet you have inexplicably accused me of not only advocating the execution of all sinners, but also supporting genocide and the holocost.

 

[CRASH]

Are you wiith God or against God?

Are you wiith God or against God?

I never once advocated putting homosexuals in jail.

The jail issue came up from some discussion about punishment in general, that stemed from people saying that they should be killed. If you are not one of the people that believes they should then why the heck are you arguing about it?

Sorry to butt in but.....
Homosexuality is a choice.
The death penalty deters people inclined that way from making the wrong choice.
If you are against the death penalty for homos - you are against God and you - YES YOU - sentance millions to a torturous DEATH. TORTUROUS!
So I guess either way YOU, Jadespring, are FOR the DEATH Penalty! It's just that way more people die under your misguided, liberal, anti-Christian, nicer than God, policy for criminal punishment.:down:

So which is it? Are you with God on this, wanting to save lives and misery or are you against Him?