Shots fired near Cal Sate University Northridge; students receiving reverse 911 calls

[Rusha]

Yeah, except we demand and expect airbags, seat belts, and require licenses.

And we know that people do not steal vehicles, drive without licenses, always wear their seat belt and make sure their air bags work.

I don't wish to see RESPONSIBLE gun owners punished because there are idiots in the world.

 

[jeffblue101]

Never gonna happen. The NRA's lobby would scream bloody murder.

Although oddly enough they don't care about actual bloody murder...

as far as i know there aren't any liberal organizations that provide and support gun safety like the NRA does. all I see from liberals is that they want to take away a law abiding citizens constitutional right to a gun.

 

[Granite]

And we know that people do not steal vehicles, drive without licenses, always wear their seat belt and make sure their air bags work.

Yet we still have those laws, regulations, licensing, and restrictions in place. (The gun lobby sounds like big auto did when they opposed seat belts--on account of concern the public might get the idea that cars were unsafe.) You seem to be suggesting laws are pretty much useless because they're not universally followed. In other words, we shouldn't even try. You might also realize we regulate the auto industry--and use of their products--far more than we've ever regulated firearms, their manufacturers, or their buyers.

I don't wish to see RESPONSIBLE gun owners punished because there are idiots in the world.

This old chestnut's trotted out as though someone's suggested penalizing current gun owners (including myself) for the actions of our latest homicidal maniac. Now, I've never actually seen that kind of punitive response put forward on TOL (in fact, I'm not even sure what you're referring to).

On top of the voluntary measures I already mentioned I don't necessarily think that mandatory licensing and training is a bad idea. (Even Tom Bite Me Clown agrees, if memory serves.) But if mandatory training to learn how best to use a deadly weapon strikes anyone as a "punishment," then I'd suggest you stay away from firearms.

 

[Granite]

as far as i know there aren't any liberal organizations that provide and support gun safety like the NRA does. all I see from liberals is that they want to take away a law abiding citizens constitutional right to a gun.

Then you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[gcthomas]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Genocide (which throughout history has happened in countries that outlaw guns) is a bit too complicated for your average westernized pagan or atheist to understand TCM.




Thanks for acknowledging that your godless society isn't working out. (and I'll call you with the murder of 58 million unborn babies in that 40+ year period).

You seem confused: my godless society has suffered only 800 firearm deaths in the last decade, during which your US had 100000. We have had just a single mass shooting since the 1989 Dunblane massacre resulted in strict gun control, and only 3 in the last 40 years. You have had 90.

I think our 'godless' society is doing well with gun control. The criminals are not routinely armed, and I haven't personally seen an armed policeman here for 15 years. Taking guns out of the equation removes the pressure for criminals to be armed, so pretty much the only armed people are inner city gangs, who are no risk to me.

 

[Stripe]

Yet we still have those laws, regulations, licensing, and restrictions in place.

As they are for guns.

What rock did this guy cr... Oh, wait. Granite. :chuckle:

 

[Rusha]

On top of the voluntary measures I already mentioned I don't necessarily think that mandatory licensing and training is a bad idea. (Even Tom Bite Me Clown agrees, if memory serves.) But if mandatory training to learn how best to use a deadly weapon strikes anyone as a "punishment," then I'd suggest you stay away from firearms.

I don't have a problem with *some* restrictive measures being enforced before an adult can purchase a firearm. Most are common sense.

People who have a history of violence or threatening behavior should obviously be red flagged.

Gun owners should bear some responsibility for incidents of violence should one of their family members (who lives in the home) commit a random act of violence with their firearm.

OTOH, I do not for one second believe that the anti-gun zealots would be satisfied with these types of changes. As we have seen on TOL, most want ALL guns banned and don't seem overly concerned about leaving a family vulnerable to attacks.

 

[jeffblue101]

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20130117/firearm-safety-in-america-2013

The number of privately owned guns in the U.S. is at an all-time high, upwards of 300 million, and now rises by about 10 million per year.1 Meanwhile, the firearm accident death rate has fallen to an all-time low, 0.2 per 100,000 population, down 94% since the all-time high in 1904.2 Since 1930, the annual number of firearm accident deaths has decreased 81%, while the U.S. population has more than doubled and the number of firearms has quintupled. Among children, such deaths have decreased 89% since 1975. Today, the odds are more than a million to one, against a child in the U.S. dying in a firearm accident.

Firearms are involved in 0.5% of accidental deaths nationally, compared to motor vehicles (29%), poisoning (27%), falls (21%), suffocation (5%), drowning (3%), fires (2%), medical mistakes (1.7%), environmental factors (1.3%), and pedal cycles (0.6%). Among children: motor vehicles (34%), suffocation (27%), drowning (17%), fires (7%), environmental factors (2.3%), poisoning (2.2%), falls (1.5%), firearm (1.5), pedal cycles (1.4%), and medical mistakes (1.3%).

Education decreases accidents. Voluntary training has decreased firearms accidents. NRA firearm safety programs are conducted by more than 93,000 NRA Certified Instructors nationwide. Youngsters learn firearm safety in NRA programs offered through civic groups such as the Boy Scouts, Jaycees, and American Legion, and schools.3 NRA’s Eddie Eagle GunSafe program teaches children pre-K through 3rd grade that if they see a gun without supervision, they should “STOP! Don’t Touch. Leave The Area. Tell An Adult.” Since 1988, Eddie has been used by 26,000 schools, civic groups, and law enforcement agencies to reach more than 26 million children.4

The “cars and guns” myth. In the 1990s, gun control supporters claimed that driver licensing and vehicle registration caused motor vehicle accident deaths to decline between 1968 and 1991, and that gun registration and gun owner licensing would reduce gun accidents. However, vehicle registration and driver licensing laws were not imposed to reduce accidents, and did not do so. Most were imposed between the world wars, but motor vehicle accident deaths increased sharply after 1930 and didn’t begin declining until 1970. Also, between 1968 and 1991 the motor vehicle accident death rate dropped only 37% with vehicle registration and driver licensing, while the firearm accident death rate dropped 50% without registration and licensing. Gun control supporters want registration and licensing only to acquire records necessary to make confiscation of privately owned firearms achievable in the future. Handgun Control, Inc. (since renamed Brady Campaign) once said that registration was the second step in the group’s three-step plan for the confiscation of all handguns.5

Also, the purchase and ownership of arms is a right protected by the federal and most state constitutions,6 whereas driving a car on public roads is a privilege. A license and registration are not required to merely own a vehicle or operate it on private property, only to do so on public roads. Similarly, a license and permit are not typically required to buy or own a gun, or to keep a gun at home, but are usually required when hunting or carrying a gun for protection in public places.

 

[Granite]

I don't have a problem with *some* restrictive measures being enforced before an adult can purchase a firearm. Most are common sense.

So common they're all opposed by the gun lobby.

People who have a history of violence or threatening behavior should obviously be red flagged.

They have an issue with this one too.

Gun owners should bear some responsibility for incidents of violence should one of their family members (who lives in the home) commit a random act of violence with their firearm.

Yeah, well...Hitler. Or something.:noid:

OTOH, I do not for one second believe that the anti-gun zealots would be satisfied with these types of changes.

Ah, see: There it is! At last. The "yeah but" school of argument:

"Yeah, these are all okay ideas...I guess...buuuuuuuuuut...they wouldn't ever shut up the real bad guys...so, we probably shouldn't bother trying them anyway."

As we have seen on TOL, most want ALL guns banned and don't seem overly concerned about leaving a family vulnerable to attacks.

I have no idea what TOLers you're even talking about and if anyone's seriously concerned about mass weapons confiscation in the United States, they are absolutely utterly and totally delusional.

 

[Caledvwlch]

I don't have a problem with *some* restrictive measures being enforced before an adult can purchase a firearm. Most are common sense.

People who have a history of violence or threatening behavior should obviously be red flagged.

Gun owners should bear some responsibility for incidents of violence should one of their family members (who lives in the home) commit a random act of violence with their firearm.

OTOH, I do not for one second believe that the anti-gun zealots would be satisfied with these types of changes. As we have seen on TOL, most want ALL guns banned and don't seem overly concerned about leaving a family vulnerable to attacks.

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I am a professed and unashamed liberal who believes in sensible gun control, and I have never suggested on TOL or elsewhere that there should be total gun confiscation.

 

[This Charming Manc]

I do there called police officers, don't you have them in the states?

I'm sure I saw one when he gave me a speeding ticket last time I was in the states

Is relying on the police to enforce law and order morally bankrupt?

I guess he and his ilk get to have others defend them?

 

[Angel4Truth]

I do there called police officers, don't you have them in the states?

I'm sure I saw one when he gave me a speeding ticket last time I was in the states

Is relying on the police to enforce law and order morally bankrupt?

Is relying on police helpful when someone is breaking into your home and threatening your family?

 

[Rusha]

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I am a professed and unashamed liberal who believes in sensible gun control, and I have never suggested on TOL or elsewhere that there should be total gun confiscation.

I am a moderate and see no problem with withholding guns from violent offenders and mental cases.

 

[Caledvwlch]

I am a moderate and see no problem with withholding guns from violent offenders and mental cases.

It's just weird to me how vociferously people scream about their rights to own tools of death. But that's not really what we're talking about here, and I agree with your modest regulation.

 

[Rusha]

I do there called police officers, don't you have them in the states?

I'm sure I saw one when he gave me a speeding ticket last time I was in the states

Is relying on the police to enforce law and order morally bankrupt?

Hmmm ... so if I hear someone breaking down my bedroom door, police officers are quick enough to stop the impending attack?

:think: I am thinking a bullet would be anywhere between 3 to 10 minutes faster ....

 

[Granite]

Hmmm ... so if I hear someone breaking down my bedroom door, police officers are quick enough to stop the impending attack?

:think: I am thinking a bullet would be anywhere between 3 to 10 minutes faster ....

Where do you guys think you live?

 

[Caledvwlch]

Where do you guys think you live?

Aren't most people who are killed in their homes killed by a family member... with a legally purchased gun? Or is that one of those liberal conspiracies I keep falling for?

 

[This Charming Manc]

It may surprise you to know that doesn't happen every day and I don't live in fear of that eventuality.

Statistically I am a lot safer in a society where we allow the police to get on with it, than the grab a gun and do it yourself security society you seem to have.

If I do have someone break into the house and try to kill us the chances of them being armed with a gun are extremely low, we are equally balanced in terms of weapons and the situation is a lot less likely to be fatal for any party.

Is relying on police helpful when someone is breaking into your home and threatening your family?

 

[jeffblue101]

Where do you guys think you live?

unless she lives right next to a police station a bullet from a privately owned gun will always be faster.

 

[Rusha]

It may surprise you to know that doesn't happen every day

Not happening every day doesn't keep it from happening ...