Shooting at SC Church During Bible Study - Suspect still at large

[Granite]

Earth to Granite, in these United States of America. Learn some history before opening mouth and inserting foot.

I know my history, and you distort it. So what on earth are you babbling about?

Unless we're entering the realm of "two wrongs make a right," or some other idiocy.

 

[Granite]

So this cretin's manifesto (these guys always have their precious little manifestos, don't they?) makes apparent to anyone except the willfully ignorant that, yes, indeed, he was a raging racist and racial hatred motivated his atrocity. Anyone foolish enough, or cowardly or dishonest enough, to deny this at this point is beneath contempt.

As for the flag: Yes, it's outrageous that it took a massacre to have an actual discussion about its removal. But ripping it down is exactly what needs to happen.

 

[drbrumley]

I know my history, and you distort it. So what on earth are you babbling about?

So blacks didn't own slaves for the same reason whites owned slaves — to work farms or plantations.

No wonder this discussion won't go anywhere, when people have blinders on.

 

[drbrumley]

As for the flag: Yes, it's outrageous that it took a massacre to have an actual discussion about its removal. But ripping it down is exactly what needs to happen.

Then the American Flag as well, right Granite?

 

[Granite]

So blacks didn't own slaves for the same reason whites owned slaves — to work farms or plantations.

No wonder this discussion won't go anywhere, when people have blinders on.

If you're going to be honest let's go ahead. So far you're cherry picking what suits you and ignoring what's inconvenient.

Confederate revisionism is as contemptible as any other variety.

 

[drbrumley]

If you're going to be honest let's go ahead. So far you're cherry picking what suits you and ignoring what's inconvenient.

Confederate revisionism is as contemptible as any other variety.

Excuses, excuses!

 

[Granite]

Then the American Flag as well, right Granite?

Uh...no. And this is the part what I finally just ask what the hell you're talking about.

 

[drbrumley]

Uh...no. And this is the part what I finally just ask what the hell you're talking about.

Slavery was done more under that flag than any flag at that time. Hell, it was even enshrined in the US Constitution. And the Klan used the US flag more than the Confederate Battle Flag. I showed 4 pics answering you and the other revisionists who side with you. I have plenty more. Yet nary a peep out of you about that. It's only the Confederate flag. Idiocy!!!!

 

[Granite]

Slavery was done more under that flag than any flag at that time. Hell, it was even enshrined in the US Constitution. And the Klan used the US flag more than the Confederate Battle Flag. I showed 4 pics answering you and the other revisionists who side with you. I have plenty more. Yet nary a peep out of you about that. It's only the Confederate flag. Idiocy!!!!

...and the victors of the Civil War made literal amends towards ending the institution. If you really want to go there dig into the Confederate Constitution, which protects slavery far more than its counterpart ever did. If you know history as well as you claim, this shouldn't be news.

The rebel flag is uniquely despicable in that its very existence was born of a demand to perpetuate slavery. While slavery was incidental in the formation of the United States it was the very lifeblood of the Confederacy.

This love affair with the lost cause needs to end.

 

[chrysostom]

there are seven shooting victims everyday in the chicago area
does it matter if they are black or white?
does it matter if they are hate crimes?
does it matter if the media covers it?

 

[Granite]

Grant may have said it best:

"I felt like anything rather than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly, and had suffered so much for a cause, though that cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse. I do not question, however, the sincerity of the great mass of those who were opposed to us."

 

[drbrumley]

Grant may have said it best:

"I felt like anything rather than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly, and had suffered so much for a cause, though that cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse. I do not question, however, the sincerity of the great mass of those who were opposed to us."

Oh, Gen Grant, the one who expelled Jews. Great role model there.

 

[Granite]

Oh, Gen Grant, the one who expelled Jews. Great role model there.

A noble and gracious victor (and spare me your snarky righteous indignation, okay?) Tragic figure, actually. If you knew or appreciated the entirety of his career and life you wouldn't spit out this kind of nonsense.

But hey, let's play this game. Right? Let's go with Bedford Forrest, then. Or Alex Stephens. Or any other number of charming slave owners or rabid bigots who literally were willing to die rather than acknowledge even the possibility of equality.

Glorifying the Confederacy is a disgrace, doc. They weren't the good guys, okay? Cut the crap already. What exactly are you defending? The Cornerstone Speech? The one drop rule? Their constitution? Why not? By what standard do you pick and choose? If your answer is "men of their time and every country has its blemishes" then you've come halfway. Better yet, acknowledge the villainy of the CSA and stop trying to make them into nobly doomed misunderstood heroes. Their cause, flag, and country was and is despicable.

 

[This Charming Manc]

It doesn't seem to matter because people have guns and its a fair price to pay for that right apparently .....

there are seven shooting victims everyday in the chicago area
does it matter if they are black or white?
does it matter if they are hate crimes?
does it matter if the media covers it?

 

[aikido7]

It is now certain that the attack on the pastor and church members was a RACIST ATTACK.

FOX "News" folks were twisting themselves into pretzels to avoid saying anything about race, preferring to say "terrorism" a political act" or other "race-neutral" descriptions.

Denying racism in this crime is racist.

 

[Granite]

It is now certain that the attack on the pastor and church members was a RACIST ATTACK.

FOX "News" folks were twisting themselves into pretzels to avoid saying anything about race, preferring to say "terrorism" a political act" or other "race-neutral" descriptions.

Denying racism in this crime is racist.

Denying otherwise is insanity, pure and simple.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Maybe the alternative should start with not settling for the cruel, grotesque, twisted, violent, heartsick, vigilante-cowboy-macho-armchair-Rambo awash-with-guns culture we've pretty much settled for. We can start there. This isn't good enough. What we're doing doesn't work. It hasn't for a while. Throwing more guns at our problem with guns solves nothing. Achieves nothing. Fixes nothing.

I for one am sick to death of people pouncing on the latest massacre--because we have so many they just blend together at this rate--and using it as an excuse to bang the drum for more damn guns. I'm sick and fed up. Sometimes I feel like being an American makes me a member of a death cult by default.

If we want to fix this we need to start demanding better than just one more stupid gun into the mix.

Did you say you gave your own firearms up?

 

[Lon]

Something meaningful

Something meaningful

From Steven Curtis Chapman's Facebook

 

[Stripe]

You don't have a verse that says they should be executed unless you look to the old covenant.The old covenant isn't in place today.

Liberty is in place today. Show us where the Bible teaches that we are not to execute murderers.

What part of "bless those who persecute you" do you not understand?

Where does it say that murderers should not be executed?

Funny how you guys go on and on about how only the gospel Paul preached is for you, but then at the same time you completely do the opposite of what the Apostle Paul says.

Where did Paul say murderers should not be executed?

There's apparently no hope for Stripe.He wants to be an executioner.He thinks executions equal justice.

Executing murderers is justice.

You were the one putting words in my mouth.

Mercy doesn't need to be divorced from justice. But you want one without the other.

And I said this, where?

And Christ told us this:

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?

So why do you want this murderer executed?

No kidding. But you're spouting anger when you should be interested in the man's eternal state, regardless of what he did. Your words aren't showing any evidence of love. You, as a sinner saved by the grace of God, are in no position to rage against the actions of another. Anger is a natural reaction, but the Christian is called to better.

:darwinsm:

Perhaps you can show us where anger is not justified.

You said immediately after and painfully, obviously both did a lot after the murders. But hey, I'm sure you'll continue to be woodenly literal for comedic effect.

What? :AMR:

This is the point where I realise you are a mocker not a fool.You know what that parable means because your IQ's over 90( i'm guessing a good way over ).You also know that Alan wasn't making the point you claimed he was.You also choose to avoid making any serious comment on the parable, because you know what it means and why its relevant.I assume the point you alluded to but were not brave enough to state openly, is that there is a difference between how we personally choose to forgive those who wrong us and the action of the law in relation to murder.Which has validity and could be well argued if you choose to.However you avoid the wider point, grace received should lead to grace extended.I see no evidence of this in you or many other followers of Mad, or the Alan Partridge wannabe who teaches it.State cannot extend grace to murders and protect the rest of society responsibly in its role. However those on the Christian right who constantly bay for blood seem to ignore a Saviour who said he came to bring lifesaid he didn't come to condemn the world
did not condemn the woman caught in adulteryforgave the executed prisoner next to himtold us to love not hateinstructed us to forgive and not seek revengeI don't see any of those aspects of the character of Christ in your arguments or positions.

:yawn: Wake us up when you're done wailing like a four-year-old.

Grant may have said it best.

:up:

 

[Stripe]

Denying racism in this crime is racist.

Can you find someone who is denying that this guy is a racist?

You're wailing about a non-crime -- that's right, racism isn't a crime -- and ignoring the fact that he is a murderer. You want to deny justice. Murderers should be executed. There should be no criminal charge for being a hate-filled racist.