Scriptures that disproves man's freewil sham !

[Nanja]

God is Sovereign in hardening mens hearts to serve His Purpose:

Ex 4:21

²¹ And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

Ex 7:3

³ And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.

Ex 9:12

And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had spoken unto Moses.

Ex 10:1

And the Lord said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:

Ex 11:10

¹⁰ And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.

These also show that mans will/heart isnt free from Gods Sovereign purpose !

Absolutely! God, in His Sovereignty, hardens men's hearts to destruction, denying them of His Mercy, because it was His Purpose for them to remain in disobedience, thereby fitting them for eternal destruction for which they were made Rom. 9:19-22. So God gives them existence to demonstrate how He makes men for His Purpose of destroying them. Their own natural will is in absolute subjection to God's Will.

 

[Nanja]

God is Sovereign in hardening mens hearts to serve His Purpose:


Deut 2:30

But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the Lord thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day.

Joshua 11:19-20

¹⁹ There was not a city that made peace with the children of Israel, save the Hivites the inhabitants of Gibeon: all other they took in battle.


²⁰ For it was of the Lord to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, and that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the Lord commanded Moses.

Samuels sons didnt listen because God had determine to slay them 1 Sam 2:25

²⁵ If one man sin against another, the judge shall judge him: but if a man sin against the Lord, who shall intreat for him? Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the Lord would slay them.

Note: Those who dont obey the Gospel of God, its because the Lord would slay destroy them 2 Thess 1:8-9


In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:


⁹ Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

They were appointed by God to disobey the Gospel 1 Pet 2:8

⁸ And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Excellent study in the Scriptures!

Proof that God has surely predestinated many to hell /wrath, for His Glory Rom. 9:23!.

 

[beloved57]

Excellent study in the Scriptures!

Proof that God has surely predestinated many to hell /wrath, for His Glory Rom. 9:23!.

Amen Sister, A Terrible Awesome God !

 

[Nanja]

Amen Sister, A Terrible Awesome God !

Indeed Brother, and Our Dear Father!

 

[Epoisses]

God is Sovereign in hardening mens hearts to serve His Purpose:

Ex 4:21

²¹ And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

Ex 7:3

³ And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.

Ex 9:12

And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had spoken unto Moses.

Ex 10:1

And the Lord said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:

Ex 11:10

¹⁰ And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.

These also show that mans will/heart isnt free from Gods Sovereign purpose !

But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said. Ex. 8:15

And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go. Ex. 8:32

And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. Ex. 9:34

Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? 1Sa. 6:6

Hypocrite and selective quoter!

 

[beloved57]

This scripture proves that mans freewill is a false doctrine and that Gods will is supreme over mans will Dan 4:35

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

 

[Nanja]

This scripture proves that mans freewill is a false doctrine and that Gods will is supreme over mans will Dan 4:35

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Amen!

For who among mankind, the created thing, can choose by his own freewill to become a Vessel of God's Mercy, whom He Loved and has Chosen Eph. 1:4 to be partakers of the riches of His Glory Rom. 9:23, if God from eternity, to make His Power known Rom. 9:22, has already created some to be Vessels of Wrath, whom He hated Rom. 9:13 and made for His Purpose of destroying them Prov. 16:4.


Rom. 9:18-20

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy,

and whom he will he hardeneth.


19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault?

For who hath resisted his will?

 

[marhig]

But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said. Ex. 8:15

And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go. Ex. 8:32

And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. Ex. 9:34

Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? 1Sa. 6:6

Hypocrite and selective quoter!

I was reading this yesterday morning, before I went to our house meeting, but I was busy and didn't get a chance to reply, but I thought what you wrote was good and right and is what I believe to be true too.

Anyway, I went to our house meeting, and they opened up at Exodus, and it was all about what was discussed here, and they were saying that people talk about God hardening pharaohs heart, but his heart was already heard. And I remember seeing a while ago that, when a person already has a hard heart, and we speak about the things of God, the word that God speaks hardens them even more, especially if it rebukes them. Some don't like to be told that they're wrong and have to do right before God, and like pharaoh their heart hardens especially if they are at ease and loving their lives in the flesh .

When we are in the flesh and don't want to hear God, anything that comes from God hardens us up against him, that's why Jesus said we have to have a soft heart to accept the word. It can't go deep into a heart that is hard. And Jesus said, blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me, because he can heal those who don't take offence, he can't heal a hard heart, and when we are rebuked, and told that we have to live by God's will, we should accept this and not fight it, because those who, when they hear the word of God repent and are willing to lay down their lives for others , willing to become a living sacrifice, and live by the will of God, are those who God can work on.

I liked what you said about respite, many go to God, and say with their mouths that they will do whatever to please him when they are going through hard times, but once their troubles subside, their flesh comes first again and their heart hardens and God goes on the back burner. God must come first in our lives every day, through good times and bad, and his will must always come before our own, we are to keep him in our thoughts and pray to him always and be ready for when we are needed to do his works and glorify him and Christ.

Anyway I thought I'd share my thoughts with you and let you know that what you have said here was discussed in our meeting not long after you posted it, and I thought it was good and the truth of God, and so did those who I showed it to, and I told them that I'd just read what you wrote, before I got there and couldn't believe that we discussed it in our meeting .

Anyway, we might not agree on everything, but I certainly agree with you here, thanks for sharing

 

[jsanford108]

If you would like a disagreement present in your thread, I would be willing to add my cent's worth.

If you prefer no disagreement, then I will simply continue to remain silent. I have enjoyed reading this thread though. Some excellent points are presented in defense of your doctrine.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[Epoisses]

I was reading this yesterday morning, before I went to our house meeting, but I was busy and didn't get a chance to reply, but I thought what you wrote was good and right and is what I believe to be true too.

Anyway, I went to our house meeting, and they opened up at Exodus, and it was all about what was discussed here, and they were saying that people talk about God hardening pharaohs heart, but his heart was already heard. And I remember seeing a while ago that, when a person already has a hard heart, and we speak about the things of God, the word that God speaks hardens them even more, especially if it rebukes them. Some don't like to be told that they're wrong and have to do right before God, and like pharaoh their heart hardens especially if they are at ease and loving their lives in the flesh .

When we are in the flesh and don't want to hear God, anything that comes from God hardens us up against him, that's why Jesus said we have to have a soft heart to accept the word. It can't go deep into a heart that is hard. And Jesus said, blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me, because he can heal those who don't take offence, he can't heal a hard heart, and when we are rebuked, and told that we have to live by God's will, we should accept this and not fight it, because those who, when they hear the word of God repent and are willing to lay down their lives for others , willing to become a living sacrifice, and live by the will of God, are those who God can work on.

I liked what you said about respite, many go to God, and say with their mouths that they will do whatever to please him when they are going through hard times, but once their troubles subside, their flesh comes first again and their heart hardens and God goes on the back burner. God must come first in our lives every day, through good times and bad, and his will must always come before our own, we are to keep him in our thoughts and pray to him always and be ready for when we are needed to do his works and glorify him and Christ.

Anyway I thought I'd share my thoughts with you and let you know that what you have said here was discussed in our meeting not long after you posted it, and I thought it was good and the truth of God, and so did those who I showed it to, and I told them that I'd just read what you wrote, before I got there and couldn't believe that we discussed it in our meeting .

Anyway, we might not agree on everything, but I certainly agree with you here, thanks for sharing

I'm not saying that God didn't harden Pharaohs heart because he did. I acknowledge both sets of verses but Calvinists never will.