School attacks couldnt happen without guns? Bombs and other means of mass attacks

[Angel4Truth]

It's about making it harder for criminals to get guns.

Its not hard for a criminal to get a gun if they want one bad enough, and its not hard for a criminal to kill people and blow them up without one.

Our own government arms criminals.

Bye bye now, ive sufficiently proven my case.

 

[Tyrathca]

There was one time, I was alone, way out in a ranch. Two men, that is 2, as in one plus another, men, young, strong, were out on the property, breaking into a tool shed. I saw them and came out with my revolver, and told them in no uncertain terms, they better leave or I would be calling the Corner. They ran like they seem their lives flash in front of them.

And if they ignored you would you have killed them? Shot them in cold blood for trying to steal a few buck worth of tools? And how is your actions better than calling the cops? The criminals are free to rob another day and you were seemingly willing to kill over a bunch of tools (or pulling a very dangerous bluff). But at least you still have your tools....

So what are you saying, you little dope?

I'm saying the overwhelming source of violence against women in their own home is by domestic violence from a partner. In such situations a gun is often worse than nothing since the woman being assaulted is unlikely to be able to retrieve it let alone use it but the assaulter certainly can. This I thought was very obvious in the context of the earlier posts.

What were you trying to say with your charming little story?

 

[Tyrathca]

Utah man arrested for breaking into Sandy home, kidnapping girl from her bed

10-year-old found alive: Girl kidnapped from bedroom by 2 men as parents slept

Police: Man kidnaps, rapes 8-year-old

Need more, there are loads more...

In none of those would the presence of guns changed the outcome for the better. Furthermore citing a few news reports of rare events does not make those events less rare.

So to summarize you want people to have guns despite the inherent risks of such so that we can protect against rare events that guns would often be useless or harmful in anyway? Smart, real smart....

 

[glorydaz]

So to summarize you want people to have guns despite the inherent risks of such so that we can protect against rare events that guns would often be useless or harmful in anyway? Smart, real smart....

So, to summarize, you want people to be unable to defend themselves despite the fact that crooks and killers roam our streets and search out people to rob and kill? Smart, real smart.....

 

[rexlunae]

Its not hard for a criminal to get a gun if they want one bad enough, and its not hard for a criminal to kill people and blow them up without one.

That's a choice that we make by our own laws. Other countries make other choices, and quite effectively.

Our own government arms criminals.

Not intentionally.

Bye bye now, ive sufficiently proven my case.

Sure you have.

 

[Tyrathca]

So, to summarize, you want people to be unable to defend themselves despite the fact that crooks and killers roam our streets and search out people to rob and kill? Smart, real smart.....

First of all are you sure there are really so many of these mythical criminals who are constantly on the prowl for people to kill?

Second I want to disarm the criminals to, they may not follow the laws but making guns hard to get tends to mean that most criminals can't get them (and those determined enough to get them aren't likely to waste it attacking random innocent non-criminals).

Third America has enough guns for every man, woman and child. It is the most heavily armed civilian population in the planet. If guns were going to prevent and protect against crime then it's not working well. That or Americans are unusually hyper violent and guns are the only thing stopping America tearing itself apart in blood-lust...


Me I'd prefer to not have to face fun armed criminals. You may go on and on about how criminals will get guns anyway but it in the real world (i.e. Everywhere outside the usa) the evidence had been that in general no they actually don't. Keeping guns out of the hands of violent idiots - That's smart.

 

[Tyrathca]

Double post - tapatalk issues

 

[glorydaz]

First of all are you sure there are really so many of these mythical criminals who are constantly on the prowl for people to kill?

Second I want to disarm the criminals to, they may not follow the laws but making guns hard to get tends to mean that most criminals can't get them (and those determined enough to get them aren't likely to waste it attacking random innocent non-criminals).

Third America has enough guns for every man, woman and child. It is the most heavily armed civilian population in the planet. If guns were going to prevent and protect against crime then it's not working well. That or Americans are unusually hyper violent and guns are the only thing stopping America tearing itself apart in blood-lust...


Me I'd prefer to not have to face fun armed criminals. You may go on and on about how criminals will get guns anyway but it in the real world (i.e. Everywhere outside the usa) the evidence had been that in general no they actually don't. Keeping guns out of the hands of violent idiots - That's smart.

Well, I know what it feels like to be under the gun. I was sitting in an apartment with friends when there was a knock on the door. We thought it was our friends coming back with a pizza. It was two guys with guns and nylon stockings over their faces. They stole what money we had and made us lay down on the floor while they ransacked the apartment. Then another guy knocked....he didn't even try to cover his face....all black men, by the way. The next night the same three did the same at a dorm room. The third night the same three gunned down a grocer, killing him and injuring his wife. I'm not sure why you think such things are "mythical". I read the papers and see robberies, home invasions, knifings, shooting all the time.

I live in a rough little town where drunks and meth addicts are only kept in check by the armed residents....the cops know they can't get here in time and are totally understaffed. They have let it be known that we need to be vigilant. Nope....not mythical at all.

 

[glorydaz]

Its not hard for a criminal to get a gun if they want one bad enough, and its not hard for a criminal to kill people and blow them up without one.

Our own government arms criminals.

Bye bye now, ive sufficiently proven my case.

Is that the claim? :rotfl:


Breaking into houses comes to mind. Only petty thieves steal computers and tvs.

 

[Tyrathca]

Well, I know what it feels like to be under the gun. I was sitting in an apartment with friends when there was a knock on the door. We thought it was our friends coming back with a pizza. It was two guys with guns and nylon stockings over their faces. They stole what money we had and made us lay down on the floor while they ransacked the apartment. Then another guy knocked....he didn't even try to cover his face....all black men, by the way. The next night the same three did the same at a dorm room. The third night the same three gunned down a grocer, killing him and injuring his wife. I'm not sure why you think such things are "mythical". I read the papers and see robberies, home invasions, knifings, shooting all the time.

In none of that do I hear of people constantly on the prowl to kill. Instead it sounds like impulsive idiots who eventually happened to use the deadly weapon they probably easily procured and were brazenly pointing in others direction. Not a big leap for an impulsive idiot to pull the trigger eventually.

Criminals aren't mythical, but vast majority aren't out to kill people. Unfortunately they don't care if they hurt or sometimes even kill someone. Why make guns easy to get for such people?


Oh and in your example the only people guns could help were the criminals. They got the easy jump on you at the door and groom then on even if you were all carrying you were at a huge disadvantage and likely unable to use them (just get them stolen and let MORE funds in criminals hands)

I live in a rough little town where drunks and meth addicts are only kept in check by the armed residents....the cops know they can't get here in time and are totally understaffed. They have let it be known that we need to be vigilant. Nope....not mythical at all.

So you let all those drunks and meth addicts easily procure guns (which if you made it hard they wouldn't do - because they're alcohol/meth addicts) and then wait for them to use it on someone in rage/drug fuelled impulse? Arming civilians is a poor substitute for a proper police force anyway even when you don't factor in the inevitable arming of criminals as a by-product.

And I'm still waiting to hear about these mythical people who are constantly on the prowl to kill people though. Instead all I hear about are impulsive violent idiots who you think we should let buy guns.

 

[Angel4Truth]

In none of that do I hear of people constantly on the prowl to kill. Instead it sounds like impulsive idiots who eventually happened to use the deadly weapon they probably easily procured and were brazenly pointing in others direction. Not a big leap for an impulsive idiot to pull the trigger eventually.

Criminals aren't mythical, but vast majority aren't out to kill people. Unfortunately they don't care if they hurt or sometimes even kill someone. Why make guns easy to get for such people?


Oh and in your example the only people guns could help were the criminals. They got the easy jump on you at the door and groom then on even if you were all carrying you were at a huge disadvantage and likely unable to use them (just get them stolen and let MORE funds in criminals hands) So you let all those drunks and meth addicts easily procure guns (which if you made it hard they wouldn't do - because they're alcohol/meth addicts) and then wait for them to use it on someone in rage/drug fuelled impulse? Arming civilians is a poor substitute for a proper police force anyway even when you don't factor in the inevitable arming of criminals as a by-product.

And I'm still waiting to hear about these mythical people who are constantly on the prowl to kill people though. Instead all I hear about are impulsive violent idiots who you think we should let buy guns.

Arent you in another country, how is it that you WOULD hear of all the crime here?

 

[Tyrathca]

Arent you in another country, how is it that you WOULD hear of all the crime here?

There is this thing called the internet, perhaps you have heard of it?

Besides random news reports in local media is bad evidence, statistics are better and statistics are accessible to everyone.

 

[Angel4Truth]

There is this thing called the internet, perhaps you have heard of it?

Then you are checking all local news outlets across america that never make it to national news, and all local police reports that never make it to the news to know what its like are you?

Besides random news reports in local media is bad evidence, statistics are better and statistics are accessible to everyone.

Are you aware of the cities across america
downplaying their crime reports and stats in order to keep tourism up and to not look "racist"?

 

[Angel4Truth]

Looks like it is not only everyday residents of New Orleans who say the New Orleans Police Department (NOPD) downplays crime in the city.

New Orleans Judge Laurie White is criticizing the NOPD after her husband was attacked at the couples’ French Quarter home by a man who trespassed onto their property.

After the survelliance footage was released of the attack, the NOPD charged the man, Joshua Stemel of Alabama, with municipal charges of trespassing and simple battery. White, though, says that’s practically letting the man off the hook.

http://thehayride.com/2015/09/new-o...d-for-downplaying-this-caught-on-tape-attack/

Survey of the Day: Police Officers Admit They Downplay Crimes

New York City police officers are pressured to "artificially reduce crime rates," according to an anonymous survey of nearly 2,000 retired officers.

The survey, conducted via email by researchers at Molloy College, found that many officers had downgraded crimes to lesser offenses. Others had discouraged victims from filing complaints. The goal? To get better stats, something that's long been a goal of the New York Police Department.

"I think our survey clearly debunks the Police Department’s rotten-apple theory," Eli B. Silverman, one of researchers, told The New York Times. "This really demonstrates a rotten barrel." The police department, naturally, is questioning the report's methodology and findings.

Crime Report Manipulation Is Common Among New York Police, Study Finds

 

[Angel4Truth]

The Truth About Chicago’s Crime Rates
The city’s drop in crime has been nothing short of miraculous. Here’s what’s behind the unbelievable numbers.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Mobile's altered crime reports not limited to single officer, unidentified fellow officers say

Three Mobile Police Department officers believe the practice of altering police reports to reduce the official crime rate extends far beyond a single rogue police detective.

They said that the problem is widespread, motivated by the department's accountability system and abetted by a lack of oversight and weak documentation requirements. The officers, all veterans of the department, spoke to AL.com on the condition of anonymity because they feared retribution if they spoke openly.

I could keep going and going. From city to city, but you who doesnt live in america, can keep telling me what its like here, when you have NO clue.

 

[Tyrathca]

I could keep going and going. From city to city, but you who doesnt live in america, can keep telling me what its like here, when you have NO clue.

I haven't been telling you what you're crime is like, you (and others) have. As I have pointed out the vast majority of the examples WOULDN'T have been made better with more guns. I ask for examples of these supposedly countless roaming criminals out to kill innocents and I get white noise.

I have however talked of normal human behaviour which I feel I can comment about. That is unless you a positing that Americans are unusually homicidal (which has not been my experience of America or Americans). Scattered media reports are a bad way to judge things because bad news makes for a good story (so with a large catchment of >300 million people you get a lot of bad news). The patten within those stories however seems to tell of impulsive idiots who got a gun, not murderous cliche villains out of a bad movie.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I haven't been telling you what you're crime is like, you (and others) have. As I have pointed out the vast majority of the examples WOULDN'T have been made better with more guns. I ask for examples of these supposedly countless roaming criminals out to kill innocents and I get white noise.

I have however talked of normal human behaviour which I feel I can comment about. That is unless you a positing that Americans are unusually homicidal (which has not been my experience of America or Americans). Scattered media reports are a bad way to judge things because bad news makes for a good story (so with a large catchment of >300 million people you get a lot of bad news). The patten within those stories however seems to tell of impulsive idiots who got a gun, not murderous cliche villains out of a bad movie.

You do know other crimes occur besides homicides where people need to defend themselves right?

 

[Tyrathca]

You do know other crimes occur besides homicides where people need to defend themselves right?

Yeah but the common defence of guns, particularly in this thread, has been defence against murderous criminals.

Also should defence against petty crimes be lethal?

 

[Angel4Truth]

Yeah but the common defence of guns, particularly in this thread, has been defence against murderous criminals.

Also should defence against petty crimes be lethal?

I dont consider rape, assault, home invasion, robbery, kidnapping, etc a petty crime.

I also figure if someone is going to threaten you with any of those things, they decided that day already that it might be a good day to die.