ECT Saved "Savages"?

Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
intojoy said:
Like I said Jer, when I was young I used to assume that plenty of people always were gettin saved but it just ain't the case is it?
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What was it that changed your mind and now you believe that God is a mad potter who makes His vessels for the express purpose of destroying them?
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
intojoy said:
There's a principle taught in scripture that anyone that asks for more light about the existence of God will receive more light. But that don't mean that the Aztecs, the African natives or Polynesians did that. Ask for more light. They didn't. They lived, they died, they will go to the lake of fire. Simple.
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Are you under the impression that none of those people believed in God's existence and earnestly sought Him?:

"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him" (Heb.11:6).​

Of course there were some people like that and they sure did not receive their reward in the lake of fire. Those who know that a God exists and revere Him and who live a life guided by their conscience are acceptable to Him, as Peter said here:

"I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right" (Acts 10:34-35).​

The LORD wants all of His creatures to be saved so He will not leave anyone without a way to be saved, as you imagine.
 
intojoy

intojoy

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Jerry Shugart said:
Are you under the impression that none of those people believed in God's existence and earnestly sought Him?:

"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him" (Heb.11:6).​

Of course there were some people like that and they sure did not receive their reward in the lake of fire. Those who know that a God exists and revere Him and who live a life guided by their conscience are acceptable to Him, as Peter said here:

"I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right" (Acts 10:34-35).​

The LORD wants all of His creatures to be saved so He will not leave anyone without a way to be saved, as you imagine.
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Of course I am. None of the Aztec people were saved until the missionaries arrived. I know that because if they had responded to the revelation of Jehovah that is seen in creation then the missionaries would have arrived waay before the did. I'm forced to agree with the scriptures and not your impressions. They chose to worship the creation rather than the creator.


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T

Truster

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Your thoughts of the Almighty are earthly.

He who predetermined the salvation of a sinner also predetermined the means. The means always come to pass by His providential working of His will.
 
intojoy

intojoy

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Jerry Shugart said:
That was in regard to a particular generation and even then not all of them were unsaved. So I wait for your evidence.
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Why is it that you insist upon the idol worshippers having an alternative means of salvation apart from the name of Jesus? Do you still believe that the Jews have their own means of being saved apart from accepting the work of the cross as well? You rly far too much upon human reasoning and not what scripture clearly states.
When the Bible says "they are a law unto themselves" it doesn't mean they were being rewarded for restraining from murder, adultery, theft and the like as if God would save them by works of law of any kind! What the passage says is that in any culture theft is wrong, murder is wrong etc. and if an individual can recognize that what his chief is promoting thru idolatry is deceptive and goes against these natural elements of his conscience, he has an opportunity to discard his idols and look to the heavens for the light of the Creator who will then put it into the heart of some missionary a burden to go to that native's country with the gospel, find him, and by preaching the gospel he gets saved. Not some mysterious lie you are imagining because you think God is saving a majority of humanity. It is a very small minority of humanity that is being saved my son.


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Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
intojoy said:
Why is it that you insist upon the idol worshippers having an alternative means of salvation apart from the name of Jesus?
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How do you know that all of those were idol worshippers?

intojoy said:
Do you still believe that the Jews have their own means of being saved apart from accepting the work of the cross as well?
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No one before the Cross or after was saved apart from the Lord Jesus' finished work. But many of the Jews were saved when they believed that Jesus is the Christ. Do you deny that?

intojoy said:
When the Bible says "they are a law unto themselves" it doesn't mean they were being rewarded for restraining from murder, adultery, theft and the like as if God would save them by works of law of any kind!
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I never said that. I said that according to Hebrews 11:6 the Lord rewards those who believe in His existence and seek Him.

intojoy said:
Not some mysterious lie you are imagining because you think God is saving a majority of humanity. It is a very small minority of humanity that is being saved my son.
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I never said that a majority of mankind is being saved. Instead, I said that since the Lord wants all men to be saved then He will provide a way whereby all men can be saved.
 
Tambora

Tambora

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I believe the BOC will have a substantial amount of members.

Not to mention that Israel is promised to be as plentiful as the sands of the seashores.

I don't think one should take the account that only 8 were saved from the flood means that is the standard proportion of judgement for all time.
 
intojoy

intojoy

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Saved "Savages"?

Saved "Savages"?

Jerry Shugart said:
How do you know that all of those were idol worshippers?

IN2: because apart from the commonwealth of Israel whom God had given the law they are the natural progression of man's sinful nature they turn themselves over to idols.


No one before the Cross or after was saved apart from the Lord Jesus' finished work. But many of the Jews were saved when they believed that Jesus is the Christ. Do you deny that?

IN2: Noah was saved before the cross as was Adam and everyone else BC. The followers of Yeshua were saved by trusting in Yeshua BC. The Jews in the upper room were saved by trusting in the finished works of the cross (if you had the gift of interpretation of tongues you'd know that).


I never said that. I said that according to Hebrews 11:6 the Lord rewards those who believe in His existence and seek Him.

IN2: That passage has nothing to do with the masses of lost people. The context is the faith of men and women that responded to revelation they had received directly from communicating with God Himself. It does not say that Gentiles would be saved by accepting the recognition of a God thru the things of creation. In the creation there will be enough knowledge of God to condemn the natives for failing to accept God. Creation's revealing of the creator God's existence is sufficient to condemn but insufficient to to provide salvation in and of itself. The reason God is still just and fair is that everyone can choose to respond to the revealing of His existence thru creation. None did save very few individuals.
I happen to be half Samoan. My dad was a hardened person against white missionaries. Going back as far as imaginable before the missionaries arrived there were none who believed. However at some point someone did turn from the traditions and looked for more light that brought the one true God into the islands. As a result I have become saved.


I never said that a majority of mankind is being saved. Instead, I said that since the Lord wants all men to be saved then He will provide a way whereby all men can be saved.
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Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I said that since the Lord wants all men to be saved then He will provide a way whereby all men can be saved.

Do you believe that?
 
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