ECT Sacrifices during the Kingdom?

[Interplanner]

I don't know why people baulk at this very biblical term, the bible says much about dispensations....but if the term upsets you let's say there is a new age to come...a GLORIOUS age

I'm not hung up on the term, only on a restoration of an old covenant and sacrificial system. The glorious new age that was coming is already introduced in Christ. The enormous dynamic temple is the community of believers. The previous administration/dispensation was the old covenant and it is done and gone.

But I also don't mean that the original promise to the nations was done and gone. It has been brought and is met in Christ. The arrival of the Law did not void or switch that, as Gal 3:17 points out.

The old covenant/Law was a 'child-trainer' until Christ came. It's supervision is no longer needed. That's true eschatologically too, as we see in Jn 12:34.

 

[Totton Linnet]

.....but God's promise to Abraham's seed was not annulled it was an eternal promise of the land


...the law added 400 years later did not annul it.

 

[tetelestai]

But you say Isaiah speaks to the church? all of it? really? that nations should flock to Jerusalem, that they will beat their swords into ploughshares and study war no more?

Those in Christ Jesus are the temple of God.

The kingdom exists right now. No one has to beat their ploughshares into swords to defend it. It's an unshakable kingdom.

This is a different picture to the one given us by the Lord of wars and famines and people's hearts failing them for fear.

Those prophecies by Jesus were for the unbelieving Jews, Jerusalem, and Judaea. That's why only those in Jerusalem were told to flee to the hills.

 

[tetelestai]

I don't know why people baulk at this very biblical term, the bible says much about dispensations....but if the term upsets you let's say there is a new age to come...a GLORIOUS age

Dispensations are never time periods in the Bible.

If they were, then God Himself would be a time period.

(Col 1:25 KJV) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

So hypothetically, there would be a place for animal sacrifices which does not deny the DBR of Christ, as preterists insist it must but in fact emphasizes it, just as the sacrifices of the past did in type and shadow. The millennial sacrifices will be largely on behalf of the gentile nations, performed by Christ's redeemed nation of priests -- finally fulfilling their role (Ex 19:6 and 1 Pet 2:5, 9) by offering up the "spiritual [but real!] sacrifices" Israel was created to perform.

Here's a few thoughts on this. The Mosaic sacrificial system wasn't primarily about atonement, rather purification, and the sacrificial system of Ezekiel is different than the Mosaic system. The majority of sacrifices under the Mosaic system were for purification of the priests and objects used temple worship, were not for the purpose of atonement. There will still be sin on earth during the millennium, and God still desires to teach that holiness is required to approach Him. You'll notice that the New Jerusalem has no temple in eternity, Revelation 21:22, as there will be no mortal flesh and sin in eternity, but this not the situation on earth, until after the millennium.

Some may find this interesting, Jesus Christ fulfilled the Day of Atonement sacrifice at His crucifixion. He became our firstfruits by rising from the dead on Firstfruits, 1 Corinthians 15:20,23. This festival is not present in Ezekiel's Temple, possibly for this reason. In Ezekiel's temple there is no Day of Atonement sacrifice mentioned, however, the prophet sees all priests continually dressed as the high priest was on the Day of Atonement: the High Priest would would wear all eight garments throughout the year, but only the four purely linen garments while performing the Day of Atonement sacrifice. This would seem to indicate a perpetual state of fulfillment of the Day of Atonement, as provided for by the death of the Lord Jesus.

I've had other thoughts, but, as somebody mentioned, most of what you put on message boards is simply trampled by trolls and tares, near impossible to develop an intelligent conversation. They trample basic truths. Complex? Fugetaboutit!

 

[Interplanner]

.....but God's promise to Abraham's seed was not annulled it was an eternal promise of the land


...the law added 400 years later did not annul it.

Sorry but that is never validated in the NT. The land seems to have been only a shadow, too. This is where we either listen to Gal 3 or we don't. But there is no mention or need for the land in Gal 3. Even in Rom 4, the only time it even comes close when mentioning the promise is to say that Abraham would inherit the world to come, the NHNE.

As you may know, Heb 11 even says that when the patriarchs got to the land, it wasn't the land they were seeking, in a bit of echo of Rom 4. 'Only together with us would they be blessed' in the Gospel.

It is 2P2P which makes people cling on to the land, and 2P2P simply is not validated in the NT.

 

[tetelestai]

.....but God's promise to Abraham's seed was not annulled it was an eternal promise of the land


...the law added 400 years later did not annul it.

Joshua tells us that promise to Abraham was fulfilled.

(Joshua 21:43,45) So the Lord gave Israel all the land he had sworn to give their ancestors, and they took possession of it and settled there... Not one of all the Lord’s good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled.

Why do you take a prophecy that the Bible says was already fulfilled, and then claim it is still unfulfilled?

 

[Totton Linnet]

Those in Christ Jesus are the temple of God.

The kingdom exists right now. No one has to beat their ploughshares into swords to defend it. It's an unshakable kingdom.


Those prophecies by Jesus were for the unbelieving Jews, Jerusalem, and Judaea. That's why only those in Jerusalem were told to flee to the hills.

The nations are not the church, we believe [that is to say I believe] a temple is to be built in Jerusalem prior to the temple of Ezekiel to which Antichrist at the head of the armies of the world will come and he will sit an abomination in the temple declaring that he is God.

Many Jews will rush to defend and fight for the temple....but God says flee

 

[Totton Linnet]

Sorry but that is never validated in the NT. The land seems to have been only a shadow, too. This is where we either listen to Gal 3 or we don't. But there is no mention or need for the land in Gal 3. Even in Rom 4, the only time it even comes close when mentioning the promise is to say that Abraham would inherit the world to come, the NHNE.

As you may know, Heb 11 even says that when the patriarchs got to the land, it wasn't the land they were seeking, in a bit of echo of Rom 4. 'Only together with us would they be blessed' in the Gospel.

It is 2P2P which makes people cling on to the land, and 2P2P simply is not validated in the NT.

I believe Abe Ike and Jake along with all OT and NT Jewish saints are the heavenly kingdom...we are joined to them, they's church.

But the promise of the land remains to Abe's seed an eternal promise that out of his loins will be as many as the sand on the seashore for number...impossible to number they will inherit the land [and the whole earth]

 

[tetelestai]

The nations are not the church, we believe [that is to say I believe] a temple is to be built in Jerusalem prior to the temple of Ezekiel to which Antichrist at the head of the armies of the world will come and he will sit an abomination in the temple declaring that he is God.

There is nothing in the NT that support these wild claims.

Do you not find it odd that neither Jesus, Peter, John, Luke, Paul, nor anyone else in the NT makes such claims?

Many Jews will rush to defend and fight for the temple....but God says flee

That's not what it says.

It says: "when you see Jerusalem surrounded, then flee.

Therefore, they would already have to be in Jerusalem before an army surrounds it.

 

[Totton Linnet]

These matters do not concern the Gentiles at least only up until when nastypants sits in the temple, which Paul splains clearly, he also says that he taught these things extensively, Peter said Paul writes about these things in all his letters

I conclude from this that there is a mass of Pauline literature which we do not have. We have PLENTY in OT testament prophesy....which YOU spiritualise and make metaphor of. Just like you just now said that the nations is the church.

You play scripture hopscotch you say this verse is literal, but this is a metaphor

 

[Interplanner]

I believe Abe Ike and Jake along with all OT and NT Jewish saints are the heavenly kingdom...we are joined to them, they's church.

But the promise of the land remains to Abe's seed an eternal promise that out of his loins will be as many as the sand on the seashore for number...impossible to number they will inherit the land [and the whole earth]

The NT generation were Jews who knew their whole history. Paul covers it all in Acts 13's sermon. Watch what happens in the sermon: 'whatever God promised to the fathers has been fulfilled by raising Jesus from the dead.' That is the culmination of Israel's history. Acts 26 is even more interesting. The Israelites are still looking for their hope to be fulfilled, but Paul knows it already is fulfilled in the resurrection!

Your assertion that the promise of the land remains is never validated in the NT. You are seeing it veiled instead of uncovered. The huge number of descendants is said in Gal 3 and Rom 4 and 9 to be by faith! That huge number does indeed inherit the NHNE but there is no ongoing fixation just with the land of Israel.

 

[Totton Linnet]

The NT generation were Jews who knew their whole history. Paul covers it all in Acts 13's sermon. Watch what happens in the sermon: 'whatever God promised to the fathers has been fulfilled by raising Jesus from the dead.' That is the culmination of Israel's history. Acts 26 is even more interesting. The Israelites are still looking for their hope to be fulfilled, but Paul knows it already is fulfilled in the resurrection!

Your assertion that the promise of the land remains is never validated in the NT. You are seeing it veiled instead of uncovered. The huge number of descendants is said in Gal 3 and Rom 4 and 9 to be by faith! That huge number does indeed inherit the NHNE but there is no ongoing fixation just with the land of Israel.

It IS validated

Paul said those who were rejected will be received, those who were diminished will be accepted, those who were graffed out graffed back in ALL Israel will be saved.those who pierced Him will mourn for Him as for a firstborn son.

That is not the remnant for the remnant were never rejected or diminished nor were they graffed out...the remnant were the church...but Paul says those who were rejected would be received.

You can't say that Christ's resurrection is the completion of everything for the Jews because it says He will return in the clouds and every eye will see Him...and those who pierced Him will mourn for Him as for a firstborn son.

 

[john w]

There is nothing in the NT that support these wild claims.

Do you not find it odd that neither Jesus, Peter, John, Luke, Paul, nor anyone else in the NT makes such claims?

Wild claims, is this satanic doctrine, from the admitted anti-Semite, and hater of the Jewish people....



"Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post

The Fallacy of Preterism

Dr. David R. Reagan...
Needless to say, many of the spokesmen for this viewpoint are anti-Semitic.http://www.according2prophecy.org/Preterism.html


http://theologyonline.com/showthread...58#post4703858

Post #611:

"The Apostle Paul was the biggest anti-Semite there ever was:.."-Preterist Tellalie Craigie



"Jesus never physically returned, and never will physically return to planet earth after He ascended to Heaven"-Preterist deceiver Tet.

vs.


“And that is what happened. The Lord came in a way that everyone could see Him. However, He never touched planet earth, and when this event was over, He then sat on the throne in Heaven NOT on planet earth.”-Tet.


"Everyone" that saw Him, according to Craigie, was Josephus, and Wikipedia. Wait....According to Craigie the Clown, he did not return physically, but all of Jerusalem saw him.. And, according to Craigie the Clown, signs are invisible...



Wait...

Vs.

"Tet is a preterist that believes Christ already returned in 70 AD viathe Roman Army."-Tambora, on another TOL thread

"Correct, and thanks for making it clear that it was the Roman army that was His return."-stupid Craigie

"The Roman army destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD. That is what Jesus meant when He said He will return."-Gomer Tet.



Hebrews 9:28 KJV
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Craigie the Clown: The Roman army was looking for him-that is the "them" above. My infallible AD 70/Pteterist "teachers" taught me,like Hank Hanegraaf, from whom I copy'npaste/spam.

 

[john w]

Tellalie's satanism:


"If you deny the NC, then you deny what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross.."-Craigie

Vs.

"I never said someone was saved or not saved based on whether or not they believe the NC is in place today."-Tellalie

 

[musterion]

Tellalie's satanism:


"If you deny the NC, then you deny what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross.."-Craigie

Vs.

"I never said someone was saved or not saved based on whether or not they believe the NC is in place today."-Tellalie

You'd think that would be enough to embarrass him into not coming here anymore. Any reasonable, honest person would be ashamed and humiliated by such self-contradiction. Which tells me one of five things. Either he's a paid troll (who pays him to keep embarrassing himself is anyone's guess)...OR he's two paid trolls who don't keep close track of what the other troll posts...OR he's literally shameless because he doesn't really believe any of what he says and so doesn't really care that he is foolish...OR he's insane...OR he's demonized.

 

[tetelestai]

You'd think that would be enough to embarrass him into not coming here anymore. Any reasonable, honest person would be humiliated by such self-contradiction.

Only God knows what is in someone's heart.

It's not my job to determine who is saved and who isn't.

What I have done is show that Darby's teachings are false, and cannot stand the test of scripture.

BTW, no one has shown themselves to be more confused than you are. You have resorted to asking your fellow Darby followers how many temples have to built in the future in order for your eschatology to work out.

 

[john w]

Only God knows what is in someone's heart.

It's not my job to determine who is saved and who isn't.

"It's not my job to determine who is saved and who isn't."-Tellalie, the fraud



What a mess(my saying, not his), you biblical moron.

Your father the devil taught you that, devil boy, and certainly not the LORD God of the bible. No, perverter, the LORD God, throughout the book, through His spokesmen/prophets, including Paul, Peter,................ demands that every man/person of God, call out false doctrine, rebuke it, call it evil, and, yes, make judgments, of those who do not accept the provisions made for salvation, at that time(progressive revelation), and expose/mark/identify them, and tell them, that are not saved, tell them that they are lost, spiritually blind, children of the devil, perverters of the gospel of Christ, fools, headed for hell, if they do not change their mind.

Of course, since you are a wimp, spineless, without a vertebrae, interested in pleasing others,the applause of men, a "man pleaser"(Galatians 1:10 KJV), you bless, where the LORD God disapproves, you make apologies, for perverted doctrine, perverting it yourself, where the LORD God demands us to stand up like men, as you seek popular applause, which is wickedness, cruelty to the lost, and flipping the bird at heaven, as you savor the rules of courtesy, instead of the rules of war, and the truth, as you do not defend faith, but betray it, into the hands of the devil.


So, you evil punk, why are you here?




Oh, yes...To tell everyone, that one can:

-"slap Christ," thus asserting that his work is not good enough, and continue to assert that, til death, and...



-teach anti-Christ doctrine,as he accused musterion, Tam, and all dispensationalists of, .......


-deny the finished work of the Saviour,


And still, they are saved.



On record.





"All dispensationalists are Darby followers."-Tellalie


"Darby followers don't believe that. Darby followers claim there will be animal sacrifices for sin in the future.You are anti-Christ when it comes to what was accomplished at the cross."-Tellalie




"heir denies the New Covenant...They are deniers of the new covenant….. Dispensationalists deny the New Covenant.Dispensationalists claim Jesus is going to oversee animal sacrifices. Dispensationalists claim God still has a plan with certain fleshly people. These beliefs are a slap in the face to what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross….You can't deny the New Covenant, and at the same time claim to adhere to Paul's gospel.Denying the New Covenant & Adhering to Paul's Gospel are mutually exclusive…. Denying the new covenant is a MAJOR point in my career.A denial of the New Covenant is a slap in the face to what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross… If you deny the New Covenant is in place right now, then you deny what Jesus accomplished on the cross… The New Covenant was implemented with the shed blood of Christ Jesus.If you deny the NC, then you deny what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross..”- Craigie/Corky Tet. The Clown, and admitted hater ofthe Jewish people



"….You can't deny the New Covenant, and at the same time claim to adhere to Paul's gospel"-devil boy Craigie



Vs.



"I never said someone was saved or not saved based on whether or not they believe the NC is in place today."-Tellalie





He is on record-you can:



-deny the New Covenant , which he says "is a slap in the face to what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross, and that means, according to his own words,"If you deny the New Covenant is in place right now, then you deny what Jesus accomplished on the cross…"

-deny the New Covenant, which is rejecting/not adhering to Paul's gospel

-have anti-Christ beliefs





And you are still saved.



That, folks, is the definition of "satanic," and spineless, who has no qualms about allowing a perversion of the gospel of Christ, but is on TOL for one purpose: to be an accuser of the brethren, divide the boc, to show how evil dispensationalism is, as you are an obsessed psychopath, and not how evil perverting the good news is, as you send people to hell, due to your spinelessness, making others twofold more the child of hell than yourself...
....

Matthew 23:15 KJV

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Only God knows what is in someone's heart.

It's not my job to determine who is saved and who isn't.

What I have done is show that Darby's teachings are false, and cannot stand the test of scripture.



BTW, no one has shown themselves to be more confused than you are. You have resorted to asking your fellow Darby followers how many temples have to built in the future in order for your eschatology to work out.

Animal sacrifices, 4 temples, alien gentiles...... What next?

:dizzy:

 

[john w]

"If you deny the NC, then you deny what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross.."-Craigie

Vs.

"I never said someone was saved or not saved based on whether or not they believe the NC is in place today."-Tellalie