ECT Rightly Dividing MADs

[Jerry Shugart]

Come on, kid Jerry-you're always right. Specifics.

I have already been specific. Or perhaps you think that Paul's reference to the "commandments of God" found in the following passage has nothing to do with those in the Body of Christ?:

"But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches. Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called" (1 Cor.7:17-20).​

It is clear that Paul is not saying that keeping the "commandments of God" applies only to the circumcision but instead it also applies to the Gentile members of the Body of Christ--the uncircumcision.

Some people think that the words "commandments of God" have nothing to do with those in the Body of Christ but that it only applies only to those who received the Hebrew epistles. But as you can see for yourself Paul applies those words to those in the Body of Christ. To be specific here are the commandments of God:

"Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness" (1 Thess.4:1-7).​

Are you willing to argue that what is written there have nothing to do with the "commandments of God"?

Now that I have given the specifics of which you asked for perhaps you will return the favor and give me the specific verses which you think demonstrates that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body of Christ but not all of them.

 

[DAN P]

Again, the commandments of God of which John spoke are the same exact commandments spoken of in the following verse by Paul:

"Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God" (1 Cor.7:19).​

In case you didn't notice it those words are addressed to those in the Body of Christ so it cannot be denied that keeping the commandments of God spoken of by John are foreign to those in the Body.



I am still waiting your for evidence that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body of Christ but not all of them were.

Surely by now you can give the Scriptures which led you to believe such a silly thing.

Or are you being dishonest about that?

Now you have a perfect opportunity to show us that you are not dishonest and you actually have evidence from the Scriptures which you think proves that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body but not all of them.

Where is the evidence?

Hi Jerry and have you read Rom 13:8-10 ?

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Duck, bob and weave. It's the Acts 2 shuffle.

Only a fool would say that Sir Robert Anderson's teaching is Acts 2 and that J.C. O'Hair's teaching is Acts 2.

Hello fool!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi Jerry and have you read Rom 13:8-10 ?

Yes, and those words are written to those in the Body of Christ and who will deny that what is said there have nothing to do with the commandments of God?

Do you?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Duck, bob and weave. It's the Acts 2 shuffle.

Read post #81 and tell me what I said is wrong concerning the "commandments of God."

Now is your chance to shine so don't blow it.

 

[john w]

I have already been specific.

No, you spin, play dodge ball, do the hokey pokey and turn all about, tap dance with a cane, white top hat, until you are tangled in a mess of wires, ropes, cob web, strings, neuron, and imitate a twisted pretzel.

In 1 John 5:2-3, which you cited, what exactly does "His commandments" mean? Where can we find them in the Bible?

Come on, kid Jerry-you're always right. Specifics. Chapter, verse....Commandments in Leviticus? Deuteronomy? Matthew-John?


How about here?:


Exodus 16:28 KJV And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?


Leviticus 4 KJV

1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the Lord concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:

3 If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the Lord for a sin offering.

4 And he shall bring the bullock unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the Lord; and shall lay his hand upon the bullock's head, and kill the bullock before the Lord.

5 And the priest that is anointed shall take of the bullock's blood, and bring it to the tabernacle of the congregation:

6 And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle of the blood seven times before the Lord, before the vail of the sanctuary.

7 And the priest shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar of sweet incense before the Lord, which is in the tabernacle of the congregation; and shall pour all the blood of the bullock at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

8 And he shall take off from it all the fat of the bullock for the sin offering; the fat that covereth the inwards, and all the fat that is upon the inwards,

9 And the two kidneys, and the fat that is upon them, which is by the flanks, and the caul above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away,

10 As it was taken off from the bullock of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall burn them upon the altar of the burnt offering.

11 And the skin of the bullock, and all his flesh, with his head, and with his legs, and his inwards, and his dung,

12 Even the whole bullock shall he carry forth without the camp unto a clean place, where the ashes are poured out, and burn him on the wood with fire: where the ashes are poured out shall he be burnt.

13 And if the whole congregation of Israel sin through ignorance, and the thing be hid from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done somewhat against any of the commandments of the Lord concerning things which should not be done, and are guilty;

14 When the sin, which they have sinned against it, is known, then the congregation shall offer a young bullock for the sin, and bring him before the tabernacle of the congregation.

15 And the elders of the congregation shall lay their hands upon the head of the bullock before the Lord: and the bullock shall be killed before the Lord.

16 And the priest that is anointed shall bring of the bullock's blood to the tabernacle of the congregation:

17 And the priest shall dip his finger in some of the blood, and sprinkle it seven times before the Lord, even before the vail.

18 And he shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar which is before the Lord, that is in the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall pour out all the blood at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

19 And he shall take all his fat from him, and burn it upon the altar.

20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

21 And he shall carry forth the bullock without the camp, and burn him as he burned the first bullock: it is a sin offering for the congregation.

22 When a ruler hath sinned, and done somewhat through ignorance against any of the commandments of the Lord his God concerning things which should not be done, and is guilty;

23 Or if his sin, wherein he hath sinned, come to his knowledge; he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a male without blemish:

24 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the goat, and kill it in the place where they kill the burnt offering before the Lord: it is a sin offering.

25 And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out his blood at the bottom of the altar of burnt offering.

26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.

27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the Lord concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;

28 Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned.

29 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.

30 And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar.

31 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the Lord; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

32 And if he bring a lamb for a sin offering, he shall bring it a female without blemish.

33 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay it for a sin offering in the place where they kill the burnt offering.

34 And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar:

35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the Lord: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

 

[DAN P]

Yes, and those words are written to those in the Body of Christ and who will deny that what is said there have nothing to do with the commandments of God?

Do you?

Hi Jerry and the Greek word COMMANMENT / ENTOLE in Rom 13:8-10 can also mean a DECREE !!


Paul is not saying that Rom 13:8-10 are the Law of Moses !!

dan p

 

[john w]

The context of 1 Corinthians 7:19 KJV, "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God."


Survey 1 Cor. 7:15 KJV "but God hath called us to peace."

I assess that there are 2 points Paul is making, in light of 1 Cor. 7:15 KJV.The point of Paul mentioning circumcision/uncircumcision, in the "same breath" with "Keeping the commandments of God".....Circumcision was formerly an ordinance of the LORD God, God, but it is not what He requires now, and, in no way,is Paul attempting to draw us back to the law. He is pointing out, that it is "all of the law,or nothing," as James asserts. Point 2, is what really matters is our obedience to God in the situation we are in by the LORD God's design,calling. Our state with Him does not depend upon our national heritage, or marital status(7:25-&;28), or......Read the whole chapter 7.

Thus, 1 Cor 7:20 KJV
20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

= Each man/woman, should remain in that "condition" in which he was called. Within his/her circumstances, a respective member of the boc should rightly discern to assess the application of the commandments of God, to specific situations.

And thus, "God hath called us to peace"= Each forever justified saint, can/should live contentedly in any situation of life in which God has placed them, because they have put their trust in the LORD God, who is in control of, sovereign over every aspect of their lives.


But, hey, what do I know? Jerry is always right.

 

[DAN P]

Yes, and those words are written to those in the Body of Christ and who will deny that what is said there have nothing to do with the commandments of God?

Do you?

Hi Jerry and the Greek word COMMANMENT / ENTOLE in Rom 13:8-10 can also mean a DECREE !!


Paul is not saying that Rom 13:8-10 are the Law of Moses !!


Verse 9 has 8 verbs and 7 are in the Greek FUTURE TENSE so tell me why , since Israel has been set aside , 2 Cor 3:13-16 ??

dan p

 

[john w]

It is clear that Paul is not saying that keeping the "commandments of God" applies only to the circumcision but instead it also applies to the Gentile members of the Body of Christ--the uncircumcision.

The old "it is clear" debate clincher, the kid inevitably falls back on, to "seal the deal."


No, "it is clear" that one of Paul's points, is that whatever circumstances a saint finds himself/herself, the LORD God is in control, and that saint should live a life of obedience, "servitude"(7:21-24) in whatever circumstances he/she has been placed......whether married or single, Jew(circumcision) or Gentil(uncircumcision), slave or free....The context of Chapter 7.

Paul is not addressing the doctrinal q of keeping the law/commandments, for justification....He had already covered that.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No, you spin, play dodge ball, do the hokey pokey and turn all about, tap dance with a cane, white top hat, until you are tangled in a mess of wires, ropes, cob web, strings, neuron, and imitate a twisted pretzel.

It is you who is playing games, not me! I gave you evidence from the Scriptures that the "commandments of God" do indeed have a place in the Body of Christ so what is said in the Hebrew epistles about them proves nothing.

If you can find anything specific that I said that is in error then let us see what that thing is.

Come on, kid Jerry-you're always right. Specifics. Chapter, verse....Commandments in Leviticus? Deuteronomy? Matthew-John?

I gave you specifics from two of Paul's epistles but you did not address what I said about that. If you can't find anything that is wrong about what I said then just say so.

 

[john w]

It is you who is playing games, not me! I gave you evidence from the Scriptures that the "commandments of God" do indeed have a place in the Body of Christ so what is said in the Hebrew epistles about them proves nothing.

Spin....The issue is not the "commandments of God" do indeed have a place in the Body of Christ."


We/I asked you-specifics.....What commands? All of them? Exodus? Deuteronomy? Leviticus? Matthew-John?

In 1 John 5:2-3, which you cited, what exactly does "His commandments" mean? Where can we find them in the Bible?

 

[john w]

I gave you specifics from two of Paul's epistles but you did not address what I said about that. If you can't find anything that is wrong about what I said then just say so.

Leviticus commands?All of God's commands?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Paul is not saying that Rom 13:8-10 are the Law of Moses !!

He doesn't have to because it is obvious that he is speaking of the law of Moses. Just compare Romans 13:9--"love thy neighbour as thyself" with Mat.19:19--"love thy neighbour as thyself."

 

[glorydaz]

The context of 1 Corinthians 7:19 KJV, "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God."


Survey 1 Cor. 7:15 KJV "but God hath called us to peace."

I assess that there are 2 points Paul is making, in light of 1 Cor. 7:15 KJV.The point of Paul mentioning circumcision/uncircumcision, in the "same breath" with "Keeping the commandments of God".....Circumcision was formerly an ordinance of the LORD God, God, but it is not what He requires now, and, in no way,is Paul attempting to draw us back to the law. He is pointing out, that it is "all of the law,or nothing," as James asserts. Point 2, is what really matters is our obedience to God in the situation we are in by the LORD God's design,calling. Our state with Him does not depend upon our national heritage, or marital status(7:25-&;28), or......Read the whole chapter 7.

Thus, 1 Cor 7:20 KJV
20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

= Each man/woman, should remain in that "condition" in which he was called. Within his/her circumstances, a respective member of the boc should rightly discern to assess the application of the commandments of God, to specific situations.

And thus, "God hath called us to peace"= Each forever justified saint, can/should live contentedly in any situation of life in which God has placed them, because they have put their trust in the LORD God, who is in control of, sovereign over every aspect of their lives.


But, hey, what do I know? Jerry is always right.

Well explained. :thumb:


God's untruth is always twisting that scripture to support her false gospel of works.

 

[john w]

Well explained. :thumb:


God's untruth is always twisting that scripture to support her false gospel of works.

Thanks D of G! I apologize for the delayed response, but I was busy admiring myself,in the mirror, for my brilliance, and humility.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Leviticus commands?All of God's commands?

1 Corinthians 7:19 commandements of God? 1 Thessalonians 4:1-7 How to walk and to please God?

If you can't point out anything specific about what I said about those two passages then just say so. And then we can move on from that and discuss the fact that those who received the Hebrew epistles were looking for an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus and only members of the Body of Christ will be caught up at that appearance:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).​

 

[john w]

1 Corinthians 7:19 commandements of God? 1 Thessalonians 4:1-7 How to walk and to please God?

If you can't point out anything specific about what I said about those two passages then just say so. And then we can move on from that and discuss the fact that those who received the Hebrew epistles were looking for an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus and only members of the Body of Christ will be caught up at that appearance:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).​

So, not all of God's commands?

And 1 John 3:2 KJV has NADA to do with how we will look, physically-the context is "sinlessness," as we discussed. But, then again, kid, you are always right, and TOL is your soap box, to tell everyone this.

 

[john w]

1 Corinthians 7:19 commandements of God? 1 Thessalonians 4:1-7 How to walk and to please God?

1 Thessalonians 4:1-7 KJV


Are these not just referring to the commandments of the Lord Jesus Christ, that He gave to Paul, via revelation, in Romans-Philemon, and not the law of Moses....?


These:?

1 Corinthians 14:37 KJV If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So, not all of God's commands?

Here is the way that Paul tells us that the Jewish believers uphold the law:

"For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law" (Ro.3:28-31).​

1 Corinthians 14:37 KJV If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

One of the meanings of the Greek word translated "Lord" is: "this title is given to God, the ruler of the universe" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

And 1 John 3:2 KJV has NADA to do with how we will look, physically-the context is "sinlessness," as we discussed.

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).​

John is talking about how the saints will "appear." And they will not know until they "see" Him as He is. But you say that it has nothing to do with their appearance physically even though John does in fact speak of His "appearance" and them not knowing what they shall be like until they "see" Him.

Besides that, other Hebrew epistles reveal that those who received those epistles were waiting for an "imminent" appearing of the Lord Jesus and only members of the Body were waiting for that appearance.