ECT Rightly Dividing MADs

[john w]

It is you who continues to ignore what Paul said here:

"Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ. Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).​

Now you can tell us why you think that Paul's word "all" only means "some."

It is you that continues to ignore what sir Paul penned in Romans-Philemon, insisting that it all says the same thing.You don't believe Paul, in Romans-Philemon, kid? Why should we believe you, instead of Paul? You think those who are Acts 2 proponents, such as yourself, do not argue that "it all says the same thing?" How long have you been a Ironside-ite? You really need to flee from the silly, ridiculous, weird theories of the Acts 2 "it all says the same thing" crowd, because you are totally confused. Why do you keep running and hiding, and assassinating me, and the messenger? Why do you post laughable, silly theories?

Here is more evidence that you are wrong. Sir Paul says this, more evidence which those in the Acts 2 "it all says the same thing" cult can ignore:

Romans-Philemon


Do you really believe that all scripture says the same thing?

We see that you are clearly wrong.It is evident, it is obvious, we see that you have no answers.


It is:

1.Clear,
2.Evident,
3. Obvious,

...that I have answered your question. Let's see if you will actually answer one of mine.

Now you can tell us why you are running and hiding, by ignoring sir Paul.


How did I do? We see you have no answers.

 

[john w]

It is clear, obvious, that we see that the kid Jerry is doing a better job of running and hiding. Why don't you believe what Paul said about the appearance of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the body of Christ? Why should we believe you, instead of God the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ, and Paul, in Romans-Philemon? And why are you clearly attacking the messenger, and assassinating me, Ironside-ite? Why do you have absolutely no interest in finding the truth in this matter,as all you care about is defending your mistaken, lame, laughable, absurd, weird Acts 2 beliefs and theories? We see that you have no answer.

 

[musterion]

Thanks, Steimy-muster!

 

[john w]

I'm getting either the above hat, for my birthday, or a "Daryl Dragon" hat, and TOL can call me "The Captain:"

 

[DAN P]

It is you who continues to ignore what Paul said here:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ. Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).​

Now you can tell us why you think that Paul's word "all" only means "some."

Hi Jerry and your 1 Cor 1:2 means this !!

The Greek word IS / ON is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and places 1 Corinthians into the DISPENSATION of the Grace of God , PERIOD !!

The verb HAGIAGO /SANCTIFIED only is speaking to those saved by GRACE !!

Where is 1 Cor 1:2 does it speak to JUDEANS ??


In the B O C there are no Jews nor Gentiles !!

2 Cor 3:13-16 shows how Jews are saved , so explain what that passage means ??

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

In the B O C there are no Jews nor Gentiles !!

According to your reasoning in the Body there are no males or females. I guess that we are not in the Body, huh?

I have a question for you Dan. The Hebrew epistles were written during the present dispensation and they were received by those who lived during the present dispensation. And there is no evidence that the authors of those epistles told those who received them that the teaching found in those epistles was not for the time of the present dispensation.

So why should anyone think that the teaching found in those epistles is not teaching which is for the present dispensation but instead is teaching that is for the time when the present dispensation is over?

 

[DAN P]

According to your reasoning in the Body there are no males or females. I guess that we are not in the Body, huh?

I have a question for you Dan. The Hebrew epistles were written during the present dispensation and they were received by those who lived during the present dispensation. And there is no evidence that the authors of those epistles told those who received them that the teaching found in those epistles was not for the time of the present dispensation.

So why should anyone think that the teaching found in those epistles is not teaching which is for the present dispensation but instead is teaching that is for the time when the present dispensation is over?

Hi Jerry and there much controvery as to when Hebrews was written !

Many use 2 Peter 3:15 to show that it was Paul that wrote that letter !!

We do know for a FACT that even during Paul's earthly ministry Israel did NOT even understand when they read the OT as 2 Cor 3:14 should be CLEAR to anyone reading 2 Cor 3:14 !!

Even in Heb 10:12 , BUT this man , after He had offered ONE SACRIFICE for sins for ever , sat down on the right hand of God !!

No MORE are sacrifices are to be excepted !! Just one reason the HEBREWS is not for the B O C !!

It seems that Hebrews , was written near 70 AD !!

Another reason given that Paul wrote Hebrews is Heb 13:22 and 23 where Timothy name is mentioned !!

There are many reason NOT to except Hebrews as to the B O C !!

I know that all have a hard time excepting Gal 3:28 and Col 3:11 and more passages the THERE CAN NOT BE /ENI Jews nor Gentiles and the B O C is a NEW CREATION in the IMAGE of God NOT as Jews and GENTILES !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It seems that Hebrews , was written near 70 AD !!

Yes, and many years before that Jews were being baptized into the Body of Christ, as we read in the first epistle to the church at Corinth written by Paul.

so the book of Hebrews was written during the present dispensation and it was received by those who lived during the present dispensation. And there is no evidence that the author of that book told those who received them that the teaching found in those epistles was not for the time of the present dispensation.

If the teaching found in the book of Hebrews is not for the time when it was written then surely the author would have let the readers know. But Hebrews will be searched in vain for anything like that. But you think that the teaching found in the book of Hebrews is for a future time.

What future time and where in the book of Hebrews does the author tell his readers that his teaching is not for them then and there?

 

[Right Divider]

Yes, and many years before that Jews were being baptized into the Body of Christ, as we read in the first epistle to the church at Corinth written by Paul.

so the book of Hebrews was written during the present dispensation and it was received by those who lived during the present dispensation. And there is no evidence that the author of that book told those who received them that the teaching found in those epistles was not for the time of the present dispensation.

If the teaching found in the book of Hebrews is not for the time when it was written then surely the author would have let the readers know. But Hebrews will be searched in vain for anything like that. But you think that the teaching found in the book of Hebrews is for a future time.

What future time and where in the book of Hebrews does the author tell his readers that his teaching is not for them then and there?

Once AGAIN.... a dispensation is NOT a period of time. You have agreed to that concept and YET you continue to both ignore it and violate it.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Once AGAIN.... a dispensation is NOT a period of time. You have agreed to that concept and YET you continue to both ignore it and violate it.

ONCE AGAIN... I have already said that a dispensation is not a period of time but it covers a period of time.

Do you deny that a dispensation covers a period of time?

With that in mind tell me exactly what I said that you think that violates that.

And do you deny that the Hebrew epistles were written during the time when the present dispensation was in effect?

If your answer is "no" then tell me why you think that the teaching in those epistles is not teaching which applies to the present dispensation.

 

[Right Divider]

ONCE AGAIN... I have already said that a dispensation is not a period of time but it covers a period of time.

Do you deny that a dispensation covers a period of time?

With that in mind tell me exactly what I said that you think that violates that.

And do you deny that the Hebrew epistles were written during the time when the present dispensation was in effect?

That does NOT means that it is about the current dispensation.

If your answer is "no" then tell me why you think that the teaching in those epistles is not teaching which applies to the present dispensation.

The Hebrew epistles are clearly different from what Paul writes.You cannot find "saved by grace through faith without works" anywhere in them.

In all three of Johns epistles, the word grace shows up all of ONE time and is NOT in any way associated with salvation (it is simply a greeting).

If you can't tell the difference, that's a shame.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The Hebrew epistles are clearly different from what Paul writes.You cannot find "saved by grace through faith without works" anywhere in them.

Here is what Peter taught in his first epistle:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19. But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).​

"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed" (1 Pet.2:24).​

Besides that, Peter says the following about their stewardship (dispensation) and it is exactly the same one which was given to Paul:

"As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God" (1 Pet.4:10).​

If you can't tell the difference, that's a shame.

Do you still think that what Peter is teaching in his first epistle is "clearly different from what Paul writes?:

The Hebrew epistles are clearly different from what Paul writes.You cannot find "saved by grace through faith without works" anywhere in them.

Have you actually ever read any of those epistles?

Evidently not!

 

[Right Divider]

Have you actually ever read any of those epistles?

Evidently not!

I have... and clearly you have a bias that does not allow you to see the truth.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I have... and clearly you have a bias that does not allow you to see the truth.

You said that what is preached in the Hebrew epistles was not the same thing that Paul preached. But again, here is what Peter taught in his first epistle:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19. But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).​

"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed" (1 Pet.2:24).​

Besides that, Peter says the following about their stewardship (dispensation) and it is exactly the same one which was given to Paul:

"As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God" (1 Pet.4:10).​

Instead of actually addressing those facts in an intelligent manner you just dismiss those verses as if they are not even there.

 

[john w]

Instead of actually addressing those facts in an intelligent manner you just dismiss those verses as if they are not even there.

According to your Acts 2 Ironside-ite, laughable, ridiculous "it all says the same thing" reasoning, instead of actually addressing those facts presented by sir Paul re. the body of Christ, in Romans-Philemon, in an intelligent manner, you just dismiss those verses as if they are not even there, as you continue to run and hide, and assassinate messenger RD. BRILLIANT!

How did I do?

 

[DAN P]

You said that what is preached in the Hebrew epistles was not the same thing that Paul preached. But again, here is what Peter taught in his first epistle:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19. But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).​

"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed" (1 Pet.2:24).​

Besides that, Peter says the following about their stewardship (dispensation) and it is exactly the same one which was given to Paul:

"As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God" (1 Pet.4:10).​

Instead of actually addressing those facts in an intelligent manner you just dismiss those verses as if they are not even there.

Hi Jerry and your 1 Peter 4:10 is the Greek word OIKONOMOS and it means STEWARDSHIP and it is not the Greek word DISPENSATION !!

Try using Luke 16:2 by CONTEXT is STEWARDSHIP also that any beginner in English 101 can GRASP !!

dan p

 

[john w]

We see, it is evident, it is obvious, that Jerry continues to run and hide to his Acts 2 Ironside-ite-ism.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Hi Jerry and your 1 Peter 4:10 is the Greek word OIKONOMOS and it means STEWARDSHIP and it is not the Greek word DISPENSATION !!

Try using Luke 16:2 by CONTEXT is STEWARDSHIP also that any beginner in English 101 can GRASP !!

dan p

Actually, Danno, OIKONOMIA is word by which we get "economy," and it means, quite literally, "House Rules."

OIKOS = house
NOMOS = rules

 

[Jerry Shugart]

According to your Acts 2 Ironside-ite...

I have already said many times on this forum that I do not believe that the present dispensation began at Acts 2. I have already said that it started at Acts 13 but since you accuse me of being Acts 2 I will once again give my proof. Here are three quotes from the pen of Paul where he speaks of a "dispensation" that has been committed or given to him:

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you" (Eph. 3:2).​

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).​

"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me"​

(1 Cor.9:17).​

The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "God's grace", a "ministry", and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibility:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).​

There can be no doubt whatsoever that the event which marks the beginning of the "dispensation of grace" is the preaching of the "gospel of grace." And that didn't happen until Acts 13.

And those who received Peter's epistle were given the same stewardship responsibilty which Paul was given:

"As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God" (1 Pet.4:10).​

 

[Right Divider]

You said that what is preached in the Hebrew epistles was not the same thing that Paul preached. But again, here is what Peter taught in his first epistle:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19. But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).​

"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed" (1 Pet.2:24).​

Besides that, Peter says the following about their stewardship (dispensation) and it is exactly the same one which was given to Paul:

"As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God" (1 Pet.4:10).​

Instead of actually addressing those facts in an intelligent manner you just dismiss those verses as if they are not even there.

Paul never ONCE talks about "being born again". Go figure that out Jerry.