Response to Cross Reference's challenge

[glorydaz]

Did I quote Paul?

Why are you asking me?

 

[glorydaz]

Do you say Peter and Jude were lying?

LA

No, I'm saying you're confused.

 

[iouae]

So your claim is that members of the body of Christ can lose their free gift of eternal life if they backslide? Who then can be saved since backsliding is not such an uncommon thing. Who doesn't stumble and fall?

Are you not confident that He who began His good work in you will perform it? Where is your faith? In yourself or in the Lord Jesus Christ who sealed you with His Holy Spirit until the day of redemption?

The letter to the Hebrews was written to the Hebrews. They tasted of the heavenly gift...drank from the rock...ate of the manna from heaven. Have you ever considered that the letter is actually addressed to the Hebrews, and that it isn't even talking about salvation? Note this verse that speaks of "better things" and "things that accompany salvation....though we thus speak."

Heb. 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.​

Rather than be so quick as to take some verses out of context and assume they say something they don't, notice how the writer refers to "laying again the foundation" of repentance from dead works, etc. "And this we will do, if God permit" implying that foundation is still being laid. Explaining again what those dead works did not accomplish. This is for the Hebrews...not the gentiles.

Hebrews 6:1-3
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.​

Glorydaz thank you for your detailed reply.

If I understand you correctly, you think this is referring to the Hebrews. If it were speaking to the Hebrews, then you might be correct, but it is not. Here is the passage again...


Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,... The Hebrews were never enlightened

... and have tasted of the heavenly gift,.. ancient Israel were promised only earthly blessings, not eternal life or the Holy Spirit, thus no heavenly gift...

... and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,... never happened to the Hebrews or ancient Israel. Theirs were promises of physical blessings...

...And have tasted the good word of God,... Christians have the good word of God called the Good News...

... and the powers of the world to come,... again referring to Christians, to whom pertain the promises of eternal life, and have received the ernest of the Spirit...

...If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;... it is Christians who repent as a rule and requirement - ancient Israel never did as a rule....

... seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh,... Christ died for Christians, thus WE not ancient Israel were the ones to whom the crucifixion pertains...

... and put him to an open shame. ... when Christ died for you, a Christian, and you fall away, nullifying that sacrifice, can He be crucified for you again? No!

This does not apply to Israel because they have not accepted His sacrifice, so they do not crucify Him afresh meaning again.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Paul was never a channel of Christ to any man.

Men are pointed to Christ that they might believe in Him directly.

You have made Paul into a Christ so that you do not go directly to Christ but instead become like Paul's flesh, which is Saul and not Christ.

LA

Perhaps the most ridiculous post in the history of TOL.

 

[Zeke]

No, I'm saying you're confused.

No Paul was confused about is conversion, Galatians 1:16-18 vs Acts 9:19-20, 26:19-20.

Well now I wonder if Mid Acts is a theory based on a Roman need for Paul to be baptized and hang with the johnny come lately historic apostle crowd that history lost in the madness.