No, I have failed in many areas of the law, which makes me a sinner.
But didn't Jesus say that he came unto the world to save sinners?
Renounce Your Worthless Religion and Trust in Christ Alone
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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No, I have failed in many areas of the law, which makes me a sinner.
But didn't Jesus say that he came unto the world to save sinners?
Yea, but you refuse to accept it, John 1:12.
Then why did Paul refer to himself as the "Chief of Sinners?" 1 Timothy 1:15
I hardly think so, 1 Timothy 1:15 is present tense.
beloved57
Well-known member
You dont believe Rom 5:19. Those Christ lived and died for, stand Righteous before Him[God], they dont have to accept anything, It was by the obedience of One. Do you know who the One is ?
There are saved sinners and there are lost sinners.
Any one that fails to keep God's Holy Law is a sinner. Paul saw himself as a sinner or it would not be there.
Sin is the transgression of the law. We all transgress God's law and are all sinners.
Nanja
Well-known member
Jesus Christ kept all the law perfectly for all those chosen in Him to have remission of sins Eph. 1:4-7, even before they do anything!
Rom. 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
~~~
No, your doctrine is not according to the Bible. The scriptures plainly teach that Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.
In order for Jesus to be the savior of the whole world he would have had to fulfill God's holy law for everyone, which he did and then he would have had to atone for everyones sins, which he did.
Because Jesus victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil God accepted Jesus back into heaven. Jesus acceptance into heaven is our acceptance, we have been accepted in him, making your Calvinist religion worthless.
If Jesus defeated sin how could Paul still be a sinner?
Ben Masada
New member
To let go such a statement, it is only obvious that you have not read the NT. Only in that text of Mat.23:13-33 Jesus was proved to be a sinner for breaking the Golden Rule 15 times.The Golden Rule states, not to do unto others what we would not like they did unto ourselves. Yes, 15 times Jesus cursed the Jewish authorities with being hypocrites and brood of vipers. Would have Jesus liked to be addressed as a hypocrite and brood of vipers? I don't think so. And mind you that the Golden Rule covers the whole second part of the Decalogue. Serious transgressions right there, mind you! Another time was when he armed himself with a whip and caused financial and physical damages to the money changers in the front area of the Temple when they had the authorization of the High Priest. Besides, if Jesus was a charismatic man, he could have solved that problem with a stern glance of his eyes without having to apply to violence.
See now what you did by stating that to come from God, one cannot commit a single sin? If you still think so, read Ecclesiastes 7:20. "There has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned." Jesus was a man upon earth for 33 years of his life if I have to remind you of.
beloved57
Well-known member
Was the golden calf the jews worshipped a sinner?
Ben Masada
New member
Not only myself but also you and every one else; we are all heading to our hiding place in Sheol aka the grave
wherefrom one will never return. (Psalm 49:12,20; II Samuel 12:23; Job 7:9; Isaiah 26:14; etc.
truthjourney
New member
http://www.jewfaq.org/m/olamhaba.html
There is clear evidence in the Torah of belief in existence after death. The Torah indicates in several places that the righteous will be reunited with their loved ones after death, while the wicked will be excluded from this reunion.
The Torah speaks of several noteworthy people being "gathered to their people." See, for example, Gen. 25:8 (Abraham), 25:17 (Ishmael), 35:29 (Isaac), 49:33 (Jacob), Deut. 32:50 (Mosesand*Aaron) II Kings 22:20 (King Josiah). This gathering is described as a separate event from the physical death of the body or the burial.
Certain sins are punished by the sinner being "cut off from his people." See, for example, Gen. 17:14 and Ex. 31:14. This punishment is referred to as kareit (kah-REHYT) (literally, "cutting off," but usually translated as "spiritual excision"), and it means that the soul loses its portion in the World to Come.
Later portions of the*Tanakh*speak more clearly of life after death and the World to Come. See Dan. 12:2, Neh. 9:5.
There is clear evidence in the Torah of belief in existence after death. The Torah indicates in several places that the righteous will be reunited with their loved ones after death, while the wicked will be excluded from this reunion.
The Torah speaks of several noteworthy people being "gathered to their people." See, for example, Gen. 25:8 (Abraham), 25:17 (Ishmael), 35:29 (Isaac), 49:33 (Jacob), Deut. 32:50 (Mosesand*Aaron) II Kings 22:20 (King Josiah). This gathering is described as a separate event from the physical death of the body or the burial.
Certain sins are punished by the sinner being "cut off from his people." See, for example, Gen. 17:14 and Ex. 31:14. This punishment is referred to as kareit (kah-REHYT) (literally, "cutting off," but usually translated as "spiritual excision"), and it means that the soul loses its portion in the World to Come.
Later portions of the*Tanakh*speak more clearly of life after death and the World to Come. See Dan. 12:2, Neh. 9:5.
Ben Masada
New member
I am sorry if I have to rain on your parade but the statement that the righteous will reunite with his or her loved ones in death is only an euphemism to serve as a consolation for those who are dying or for those who have to say goodbye to their loved ones just gone. The Truth is not fairly served with embellishments. But as you mentioned above about "clear evidence in the Torah" you quoted Daniel 12:2.
If you read Isaiah 53:8,9 when Jews are forced into exile, it is as if they have been cut off from the Land of the Living and graves are assigned to them among the nations. At the end of the exile, the Lord opens up those graves and brings them back to the Land of Israel. Those who wake up to the call and make Aliyah back to Israel are considered as getting eternal life. And those who prefer to remain in exile, are taken as agreeing to a life of shame and abhorrence.
The bottom line is that there is absolutely no evidence of existence in the afterlife.
That's an illusion that does not stop being promoted because we all know that one will
never return to speak about the world to come in Sheol aka the grave.
beloved57
Well-known member
Will there be a golden calf there to worship?
Nanja
Well-known member
False Teaching! You lie against the Word of God!
Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the World that God Loved, chosen in Union with Him to be Holy and without blame before Him in Love Eph, 1:4.
A World of people He came not to condemn, but to Save:
John 3:16-17
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
This world is made up of the People Christ shall Save from their sins Mat. 1:21 because they were chosen in Him to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:7; Rom. 4:7-8.
1 Cor. 11:32
But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
But there is a non-elect world that is condemned already John 3:18, 36. God created them for the sole purpose to condemn them in the Day of Judgment.
Rev. 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
~~~
Ben Masada
New member
Especially for you...may be.
I noticed that you included yourself. The unbelieving.
Nanja
Well-known member
Lol, no I am a Sheep of Christ!
The unbelieving are the non-elect, those that are not Christ's Sheep.
That's the reason they don't believe.
John 10:26
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
They are those who were condemned already John 3:18, 36, the cursed goats Jesus speaks to here:
Mat. 25:41, 46
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous [Christ's Sheep He gave His Life for John 10:11, 15] into life eternal.
~~~