Religious Zealotry

[Clete]

What's the difference between telling the Muslim Taliban and the Christian Taliban? They both want the same thing: death to homosexuals.

It was neither Christianity nor Islam that said that homosexuals should be put to death. It was GOD Himself...

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

Romans 1: 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

I ask you again...

Was God wrong?

 

[marke]

In this country, these rights do include being a homosexual.

Just because wicked sinners may legalize the murder of Jews or babies does not make it OK with God. Likewise, legalizing homosexuality is the illegitimate legalization of a sin God has condemned.

Again, I want to make this about being subject the the governing authorities, which in this country, are civil authorities.
I didn't say that anyone was advocating any church have political power.
You advocate laws based on your religious beliefs be applied to those who do not share your religious beliefs. Our civil laws don't allow that.

America became a great nation because of its early honor of God. That does not mean that all early American laws honored God or that all early Americans were Christians who walked in obedience with God. But there was an acknowledgment of God's sovereignty over men to a degree not seen in other nations that laid the foundation for this great nation.

Modern atheists, hedonists, perverts, rebels, anarchists, liars, traitors, and so forth have done a great deal of damage to America, but Americans are not duty-bound to give in to those rebels just because they demand that their views and values take precedence over the views and values of patriotic American Christians.

 

[marke]

We're not talking about treason, which breaks the law of this country, we're talking about people having the right to be what you don't like and don't approve of, and the right to not believe what you believe, all of which do not break the laws of this country.

It does not matter what I like. What matters is what God says and thinks. God sees homosexuality as a sin so those who attempt to force the acceptance of sin on others are rebels against God whose propagation of sin should not be heard in civilized societies.

 

[annabenedetti]

It was neither Christianity nor Islam that said that homosexuals should be put to death. It was GOD Himself...

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

Romans 1: 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

I ask you again...

Was God wrong?

I'm not contesting what the Bible says, I'm contesting the idea that what the Bible says should be used to make laws in this country regarding capital punishment for homosexuals. The fact remains that fundamental Christian belief about executing homosexuals is comparable to Sharia in Islam about executing homosexuals. The similarity is there. It doesn't belong in American civil government.

 

[annabenedetti]

It does not matter what I like. What matters is what God says and thinks. God sees homosexuality as a sin so those who attempt to force the acceptance of sin on others are rebels against God whose propagation of sin should not be heard in civilized societies.

Nobody's forcing you to accept it as anything other than what you believe. What you believe stops with you where your neighbor begins. Are you in your neighbor's business if you know he's a homosexual? Or do you just talk about being in his business on the internet?

 

[annabenedetti]

legalizing homosexuality is the illegitimate legalization of a sin God has condemned.

It's our American government recognizing the equal rights of all citizens.

America became a great nation because of its early honor of God. That does not mean that all early American laws honored God or that all early Americans were Christians who walked in obedience with God. But there was an acknowledgment of God's sovereignty over men to a degree not seen in other nations that laid the foundation for this great nation.

That early honor of God included burning "witches," owning slaves, counting them as less than fully human, and denying equal rights to Catholics, women, slaves, free Blacks, Chinese and other minority populations.

 

[ok doser]

It's our American government recognizing the equal rights of all citizens.

Next up? The "right" to molest willing children.

And they will sell it to you so cleverly, my dimwitted little bananahead, that in 20 years you will completely deny that you ever opposed legalized pedophilia

 

[PureX]

Humans can be wrong but God cannot. It is the responsibility of every sinner to seek to align himself with God on every issue.

You are not God. You do not speak or think for God. Your judgment is not God's judgment. Your idea of righteousness is not God's idea of righteousness. You cannot see what God can see. You cannot know what God can know. You have not been appointed God's instrument of judgment or wrath. Your idea of a righteous America is no one's but your own. It is not God's, and it has no moral authority over anyone else's idea of a righteous America.

Yet you seem not to be able to accept this.

 

[ok doser]

You are not God. You do not speak or think for God. Your judgment is not God's judgment. Your idea of righteousness is not God's idea of righteousness. You cannot see what God can see. You cannot know what God can know. You have not been appointed God's instrument of judgment or wrath. Your idea of a righteous America is no one's but your own. It is not God's, and it has no moral authority over anyone else's idea of a righteous America.

Yet you seem not to be able to accept this.

And yet you presume to be God, you presume to know his thoughts his motivations, and you presume to a position of moral authority over him.

Yet you seem not to be able to accept this

 

[marke]

Nobody's forcing you to accept it as anything other than what you believe. What you believe stops with you where your neighbor begins. Are you in your neighbor's business if you know he's a homosexual? Or do you just talk about being in his business on the internet?

Laws against wickedness, such as murder, stealing, assaults, slander, violence, corruption, perversion, immorality, and so forth are right because they are right, in spite of what corrupted sinners think about them.

 

[annabenedetti]

Laws against wickedness, such as murder, stealing, assaults, slander, violence, corruption, perversion, immorality, and so forth are right because they are right, in spite of what corrupted sinners think about them.

You didn't answer my question.

 

[marke]

It's our American government recognizing the equal rights of all citizens.

Honoring the 'rights' of Black Lives Only, or the rights of sex perverts to practice open sexual perversion in offense to people who do not want sexual perversion openly promoted or practiced, etc., are not protecting the rights of all citizens, just those who want their wants and wishes honored in spite of the damage such special considerations do to the community or nation as a whole.

That early honor of God included burning "witches," owning slaves, counting them as less than fully human, and denying equal rights to Catholics, women, slaves, free Blacks, Chinese and other minority populations.

Just because sinners did horrible things in early America does not mean good Americans opposed those things and does not mean the good values and laws in early America were evil. Early Americans fought and died in opposition to slavery. That does not mean that all Americans opposed slavery or that America should be scrapped and rebuilt without God because of those sinners who had ungodly influence in early America.

 

[ok doser]

Nobody's forcing you to accept it as anything other than what you believe. What you believe stops with you where your neighbor begins. Are you in your neighbor's business if you know he's a homosexual? Or do you just talk about being in his business on the internet?

What business is it of yours if your neighbor is molesting his children?

 

[marke]

You didn't answer my question.

Here is your post.

Nobody's forcing you to accept it as anything other than what you believe. What you believe stops with you where your neighbor begins. Are you in your neighbor's business if you know he's a homosexual? Or do you just talk about being in his business on the internet?

I am not a baker so nobody is forcing me to bake a cake for a homosexual wedding. That does not mean homosexuals and their supporters do not force their beliefs on others.

I believe mothers have no right to murder their children before or after they are born. I seek to enforce protections for the rights of children that wicked sinners seek to violate.

Is my neighbor indulging in child sexual perversion or pornography and should I care? I do not advocate unprovoked witch hunts but I do advocate for the enforcement of laws of decency, morality, and civilized behaviors.

 

[PureX]

Laws against wickedness, such as murder, stealing, assaults, slander, violence, corruption, perversion, immorality, and so forth are right because they are right, in spite of what corrupted sinners think about them.

And in spite of what you think about them.

They are right because they support freedom, justice, and opportunity for all. They support your right to believe and live as you see fit, so long as you don't deny anyone else those same rights. Because there is no freedom without equality. And there is no absolute freedom. Everyone has to give some to get some.

 

[marke]

And in spite of what you think about them.

They are right because they support freedom, justice, and opportunity for all. They support your right to believe and live as you see fit, so long as you don't deny anyone else those same rights. Because there is no freedom without equality. And there is no absolute freedom. Everyone has to give some to get some.

Homosexuals need to realize they do not have to force Christians to violate their religion to make them a cake when they can simply go elsewhere to get a cake from someone else.

 

[PureX]

Homosexuals need to realize they do not have to force Christians to violate their religion to make them a cake when they can simply go elsewhere to get a cake from someone else.

They aren't forcing Christians to do anything. When anyone opens a business to the public, they have to abide by the laws governing businesses open to the public. One of those laws protects the public from unjust discrimination. Being a Christian or being gay has nothing to do with it. It's just about maintaining fair business practices. Practices that everyone, including Christians, agree to when they open their business to the public.

 

[marke]

They aren't forcing Christians to do anything. When anyone opens a business to the public, they have to abide by the laws governing businesses open to the public. One of those laws protects the public from unjust discrimination. Being a Christian or being gay has nothing to do with it. It's just about maintaining fair business practices. Practices that everyone, including Christians, agree to when they open their business to the public.

You are right. No homosexual pervert will be forcing me to honor homosexuality, hire homosexuals, have my kids allow homosexuals to spend the night at my house, and so forth.

 

[ok doser]

They aren't forcing Christians to do anything. When anyone opens a business to the public, they have to abide by the laws governing businesses open to the public. One of those laws protects the public from unjust discrimination. Being a Christian or being gay has nothing to do with it. It's just about maintaining fair business practices. Practices that everyone, including Christians, agree to when they open their business to the public.

Would you make that argument if a Neo-Nazi organization demanded that a Jewish bakery provide it services?

Would you make that argument if a Mooslim bakery refused to provide services to homosexuals?


That second one happened by the way. It was deliberately done to see what the reaction would be - it was recorded - it occurred at multiple Muslim bakeries in communities that had many Muslims and the homosexuals were always turned away, denied services. And nobody cared

 

[ok doser]

They aren't forcing Christians to do anything. When anyone opens a business to the public, they have to abide by the laws governing businesses open to the public. One of those laws protects the public from unjust discrimination. Being a Christian or being gay has nothing to do with it. It's just about maintaining fair business practices. Practices that everyone, including Christians, agree to when they open their business to the public.

When I open a business to the public, a business that I alone finance and wholly own, I have the right to choose my clientele. You do not have the right to force me to engage in business against my will. It's a matter of contractual law. The government cannot compel a citizen to engage in a contract against his will.