ECT Reformed Theology

[musterion]

HUH?

She's lying.

She's trying to equate the Biblical fact of God condemning the choice of unbelief with her idol's condemning people before they ever existed.

 

[Nang]

To add: Arminians who say they teach unlimited (universal) atonement, actually demean the worth of the blood of Christ, and limit the efficacy of Christ's blood and purpose, according to sinners' supposed ability to thwart the will and work of Christ by their unbelief.

According to them, Christ failed to save all He died for; therefore the cross is limited only to sinners smart enough to choose to believe in the cross, placing all efficacy of the cross in their hands.

Not good. Not biblical. Illogical, to boot . . .

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The blood of Jesus Christ did not atone for all men, universally, but was limited to and offered and purposed to redeem only His saints; chosen in Him by the Father before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:3-12

That does not mean that there was any limitation to the efficacy of the blood of Jesus Christ; simply that He bore the sins of His people (church) and His people alone.

Such is one of the definitions of reprobation. Jesus Christ did not die for those not given to Him to redeem. Thus His cross not only fulfilled all forensic righteousness, but also fulfilled all forensic justice.

Romans Chapter 9 clearly makes distinction between God's Elect people, and reprobates.

Christ died for the sins of ALL mankind! However, only those
who place their faith in Christ and are baptized by the Holy
Spirit into the Body of Christ will benefit! That's why in
Revelation, the "Unsaved" will be judged according to their
"works" not their sins! Christ took care of the sin question
2000 year's ago! By the way, the baptism I mentioned is
not by water but by the Holy Spirit!

 

[genuineoriginal]

Here is proof from scripture that God thinks more highly of one open theist than ninety-nine reformed theists:

Luke 15:7 NASB 7 I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.​

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

To add: Arminians who teach unlimited (universal) atonement, actually demean the worth of the blood of Christ, by limiting the efficacy of Christ's blood and purpose, by sinners' supposed ability to thwart the will and work of Christ by rejecting the atonement by their unbelief.

According to them, Christ failed to save all He died for; therefore the cross is limited only to sinners smart enough to choose to believe in the cross, placing all efficacy of the cross in their hands.

Not good. Not biblical. Illogical, to boot . . .

I'm not an Armianian but, for certain you are a Calvinist! I'm a
member of the "Body of Christ." That's my position!

 

[musterion]

According to them, Christ failed to save all He died for

No, He doesn't fail. They fail to let God save them. His sacrifice is not one atom diminished by that fact. They're given the choice and if they reject Him, that is the single greatest reason for damnation in the universe...hence God taking vengeance on those who REFUSE to receive a love of the truth. Can only refuse something if you have the free will to do so. Otherwise it's all a lie, liar.

 

[Nang]

She's lying.

She's trying to equate the Biblical fact of God condemning the choice of unbelief with her idol's condemning people before they ever existed.

I am not lying, you just do not understand, that all men universally would be condemned for their unbelief, and Christ would never have incarnated or gone to the cross at all . . except for God's will to save a people (His church) from their sins; removing their condemnation by placing it upon His own Son.

That is grace . . .

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Nang is so "brainwashed" by John"Killer"Calvin and her reformed indoctrination,
she can't see straight!

 

[musterion]

Calvinism denies grace.

Grace is only grace if one genuinely has no hope without it, would surely be damned without it.

Calvinism's elect are never, ever, at the slightest risk of damnation (U-L-I-P). You don't need grace if you've already been unthwartably elected. It's redundant, unnecessary and pointless.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I am not lying, you just do not understand, that all men universally would be condemned for their unbelief, and Christ would never have incarnated or gone to the cross at all . . except for God's will to save a people (His church) from their sins; removing their condemnation by placing it upon His own Son.

That is grace . . .

Grace according to "Brother Calvin" The Pope of Geneva!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Calvinism denies grace.

Grace is only grace if one genuinely has no hope without it, would surely be damned without it.

Calvinism's elect are never, ever, at the slightest risk of damnation (U-L-I-P). You don't need grace if you've already been unthwartably elected. It's redundant.

Yep!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Brother Calvin played a part in the "execution" of over 50 individuals! He
was nicknamed; "The Pope of Geneva!" Not a good guy by any stretch
of the imagination! None the less, a hero to his followers!

 

[Nang]

Calvinism denies grace.

Grace is only grace if one genuinely has no hope without it, would surely be damned without it.

Calvinism's elect are never, ever, at the slightest risk of damnation (U-L-I-P). You don't need grace if you've already been unthwartably elected. It's redundant, unnecessary and pointless.

Ephesians 2:1-10

 

[Cross Reference]

The blood of Jesus Christ did not atone for all men, universally, but was limited to and offered and purposed to redeem only His saints; chosen in Him by the Father before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:3-12

That reads like man had to be chosen for salvation?

That does not mean that there was any limitation to the efficacy of the blood of Jesus Christ; simply that He bore the sins of His people (church) and His people alone.

Do you think Jesus died for my poor ignorant yak shepherd who lived as though there was a God but his life was but caring for his yaks? IOW's, he never heard of Jesus.

Such is one of the definitions of reprobation.

Isn't reprobation a spiritual condition God administers to people who no longer desire Him in their lives, in their thinking?

Jesus Christ did not die for those not given to Him to redeem.

Where is it written that it was for redeeming them they were given Him?

Thus His cross not only fulfilled all forensic righteousness, but also fulfilled all forensic justice.

I don't understand that language.

Romans Chapter 9 clearly makes distinction between God's Elect people, and reprobates.

Where do you see that in Rom 9?

I do most all my study using a KJV Bible. I don't find any of that understanding anywhere in there. Help me out a little by explaining John 3:16 for starters. Thank you

 

[Doom]

I believe Paul would be the first to rebuke you MADists for cursing people. No sinner is in position or possesses the right to curse another. Not even Paul.

Paul would curse you first Nang, if he was here today, and tell you that not you are eternally condemned for the message you have believed and preach.

 

[Nang]

That reads like man had to be chosen for salvation?

Yes it does.

What does Ephesians 1:3-4 teach?

Do you think Jesus died for my poor ignorant yak shepherd who lived as though there was a God but his life was but caring for his yaks? IOW's, he never heard of Jesus.

I have no idea.

Isn't reprobation a spiritual condition God administers to people who no longer desire Him in their lives, in their thinking?

No. Reprobation is being left in one's original sinful state.

Where is it written that it was for redeeming them they were given Him?

Ephesians 1:3-12, Galatians 4:21-31

Help me out a little by explaining John 3:16 for starters. Thank you

Actually, the Apostle John presents more teaching regarding Limited Atonement than some of the other Apostles. His gospel and the smaller epistles of John are very helpful.

John 3:16 is in context of Jesus teaching Nicodemus the necessity of being born again from above by the resurrection power of the Holy Spirit. This event in a sinner's life precedes coming to belief in the gospel . . and verse 16 is God's promise that all who are brought to new spiritual life by the Holy Spirit, will believe the gospel message, and receive eternal life.

The end of the chapter describes reprobation.

 

[Doom]

What does Ephesians 1:3-4 teach?

Absolutely NOTHING about man being chosen for salvation. NOTHING. You are a complete and utter moron to think it does.

 

[Cross Reference]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang View Post

That reads like man had to be chosen for salvation?

Yes it does.

What does Ephesians 1:3-4 teach?

It teaches something you have left out:

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren"

Romans 8:29 (KJV)

Summation: God predestined those He foreknew, not the other way around. Those whose lives would be lived out in a way that would please Him He foresaw and chose to be His people.

Quote:
Do you think Jesus died for my poor ignorant yak shepherd who lived as though there was a God but his life was but caring for his yaks? IOW's, he never heard of Jesus.

I have no idea.

Why not? I do. My gospel is complete by revealing such knowledge.

Quote:
Isn't reprobation a spiritual condition God administers to people who no longer desire Him in their lives, in their thinking?

No. Reprobation is being left in one's original sinful state.

Incorrect:

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, . . . . .
. . . . . And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; "Romans 1:20-22,28 (KJV) [Reprobation cannot be reversed]

Proof man is NOT born a reprobate.

Quote:
Where is it written that it was for redeeming them they were given Him?

Ephesians 1:3-12, Galatians 4:21-31[/QUOTE]

Try again because those passages don't say what you need them to say because you not factoring in the wording in Rom 8:29.

Quote:
Help me out a little by explaining John 3:16 for starters. Thank you

Actually, the Apostle John presents more teaching regarding Limited Atonement than some of the other Apostles. His gospel and the smaller epistles of John are very helpful.

John 3:16 is in context of Jesus teaching Nicodemus the necessity of being born again from above by the resurrection power of the Holy Spirit. This event in a sinner's life precedes coming to belief in the gospel . . and verse 16 is God's promise that all who are brought to new spiritual life by the Holy Spirit, will believe the gospel message, and receive eternal life.

Not hardly can that be true given the fact of Nicodemus being in the presence of Jesus __ to inquire of Him. OH, OMT, By your understanding one must believe Nicodemus was a reprobate. Isn't that correct?

The end of the chapter describes reprobation.

I don't believe and I would like you weight your passage against Rom.8:29.

Thank you.

 

[MaxGrit]

Paul would curse you first Nang, if he was here today, and tell you that not you are eternally condemned for the message you have believed and preach.

If Paul is alive, he would be telling you what I have been telling you, for both of us speak from Christ in us.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Absolutely NOTHING about man being chosen for salvation. NOTHING. You are a complete and utter moron to think it does.

Maybe you are not chosen?

Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Its a tricky one.

LA