Your agenda appears vague and lacking. What are you trying to accomplish? Are you insinuating that ALL of Christianity is wrong, and you're right? Do you think that only you hold the key to the way of salvation, is that it?
Rediscovering Faith , faithing , and the Salvation process .
- Thread starter Faither
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Your agenda appears vague and lacking. What are you trying to accomplish? Are you insinuating that ALL of Christianity is wrong, and you're right? Do you think that only you hold the key to the way of salvation, is that it?
Which one of the facts I've presented up to this point , do you disagree with ?
Fact 2: You are a fraud, as these "the original Greek texts" no longer exist, and, just how would you know they were the "original?"
EOT. DOA. RIP.
Who are these "original authors?" Break it down for us.
Matthew , Mark , Luke , John , Paul , etc .
The gifted teacher God has put in my path owned the largest collection of biblical manuscripts in private hands , behind the Vatican .
Having personal access to originals and copies of originals gave him a good understanding of the messages that they were communicating .
So I'm a fruad because I can't prove what ?
You missed it. The LORD God is the author of his book.
Was Terttius an author?
Romans 16:22 KJV I Tertius, who wrote this epistle, salute you in the Lord.
You lied, and continue to lie-"the original Greek texts."
These "original Greek texts" no longer exist. Slower: There is only 1 "original," of anything.
Fraud.
This thread is about pisteuo . The word , the definition , the use , and application in the salvation process .
Thanks for pointing out what could be my next fact 10 , the Lord God is the one who chose the word pisteuo to communicate how one faithes into Him . " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ."
And that's the one I'm referring too . What's your point ?
Ask Mr. Religion
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Most, especially me, have little patience for Whack-A-Mole® tactics. You know, the jejune method of not a few that attempt to engage a serious topic with seemingly innocuous questions, as in, "Can God write a new song?", then lie in wait ready to pounce "Gotcha!" at a response. Then comes yet another question, "Can you define justice?" with the same tactics, ad infinitum. Alternatively, these poor folks will craft what they think is a really good thought experiment, a scenario, asking others to weigh in, never revealing their intended end game, preferring instead that their readers attempt telepathy to get at the real nuggets, if any.
After pages of this one finally comes to something that resembles an actual discussion worthy of critique. Of course, by that time the effort, frustration, and pointlessness of the game being played usually sends the serious person elsewhere to places that do not resemble a schoolyard.
Agendas should be plainly spoken and set before others for examination and comment, absent the need to spend time teasing things out while others are being entertained watching another attempting to knock down all the moles about the discussion. Hidden agendas are the currency of the banal, for they really have nothing new to say or propose. They will cloak everything in mystery and suspense as if only they themselves possess Gollum's "my precious" ring of truth, but the build up of suspense never matches the final revealing. Boring.
Leveraging the "it is not easy" argument to delay the unveiling of what you really have to seems to belie an assumption (by you alone) that your audience is incapable of actually understanding what you have proffered. If they are not able, then perhaps you are talking to the wrong audience. If they are, perhaps you should extend them a wee bit of respect by not teasing them as if you are handing out treats to animals to watch them dance.
Rather than all these step 1, step 2, etc., just lay it all out. After all, by your own claims you have spent over three decades on the matter, so surely you have something finely tuned at the ready for consideration, no? Is it online somewhere in all its resplendence? Link please. Is it in a formal document? Attachment please. But for all that is holy, and for the love of God, say something meaningful and substantive.
AMR
Is this your way of saying you agree with the 9 facts I've presented so far ? For me to continue , your going to have to say either yes , you agree , or no you disagree , with a valid reason .
glorydaz
Well-known member
Excuse me while I :rotfl:
We're supposed to take YOUR word for this?
Look, I've been doing this a long long time so you'll forgive me if I use my intelligence guided by experience to look upon what you're doing with a great deal of skepticism.
Do you know how many heretics base their doctrine on "mistranslations"? Pretty much all of them. It isn't proof that you're a nut job but it is a red flag and I don't ignore red flags unless I have good reason too.
I'm still plenty interested in whatever it is you think you've discovered and I'm interested in debating it if it holds an ounce of water but this pedantic, one sentence at a time, approach isn't going to hold anyone's interest past two posts. All its going to do is cause everyone to write you off as a nut case. So the question isn't whether anyone's interested, it's whether or not you want to present your ideas with less condicension and with more substance and effecientcy. It doesn't have to be one post but fi you think anyone is going to be willing to wad through 15, 20, 30 or 50 posts to get to the punch line, you're going to be disappointed.
As far as each point being a necessary step along the way, I get that. You're attempting to shift people's paradigm which can't be successfully accomplished without people being able to see the entire intellectual journey it took to arrive at the destination to which you're trying to take them. In addition, you think that if people commit to agreeing with or at least not objecting too each step that they'll be obliged to accept the conclusion that you plan, one day, to present to them. This would be true if your premises were absolutes and if, taken together, they allowed only one conclusion but that is rather unlikely to begin with and more importantly, the approach makes it feel like you're setting a trap and the same defense mechanisms that make it hard for people to change their paradigm in the first place will kick in to prevent them from following down what will intuitively seem to them to be a primrose path.
I'm telling you, from experience, just make the argument and don't expect that anyone will be persuaded because they probably won't be. The making of the argument ought to be almost as much for your own benefit as it is for anyone else's. Otherwise, you're going to be mostly wasting your time here.
Clete
Yes clete , I'm always learning more about Jesus , the Holy Spirit , and the Salvation process whenever I talk to others about it . Thank you for expressing a legit interest and in a respectful way .
This is the rest of what I have to share and how I will present it .
I've already gone over the Greek word , it's importance , the right definition , and how it was not able to be translated into the English language .
I will continue first , with examples of how this mistranslation has affected our basic understanding of how faithing ( pisteuo ) is viewed .
Then I will give some Scriptural evidence by showing how pisteuo or Faithing was meant to be communicated and recieved .
Then I will share my understanding of the complete Salvation journey , from start to finish . I have it , in detail . It is broke down into five phases .
Every fact I post is a point of reference , you described it perfectly . I will need a minimum of 7 or 8 more posts or what I've been identifying as facts to complete this understanding to be tested .
Oh , and I'll at some point describe the two specific paths . One of todays church world , and the second , the one that seems to have been forgotten .
I'll begin with the next fact this afternoon .
No, you argued:
No, you lied, as the "the original Greek texts" no longer exist, and no one alive, obviously,including yourself, has ever examined them, and would not even be able to prove that they were "the original Greek texts," even if they allegedly fell in their/your lap, so just whom do you think you are trying to bamboozle on this forum, rummy-your Aunt Sally?
No, you argued that "Matthew , Mark , Luke , John , Paul , etc ." are/were the authors of the book. You made that up. The LORD God is the author of His book.
You made the assertion-now, back it up. And address:
Was Terttius an author?
Romans 16:22 KJV I Tertius, who wrote this epistle, salute you in the Lord.
And you are asking, "This thread is about pisteuo."? Nope-you are not qualified.
Ok clete let's get this back on track .
Fact 10
Because of " pisteuo " the verb form of " Faith " not able to be correctly translated into the English language , we as people have lost not only the correct definition , but the understanding of what pisteuo is and how it is fulfilled .
Pisteuo or the verb form of Faith is an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence , it's a verb . And the object of pisteuo or faithing is always something unseen . When the unseen becomes seen it then becomes a fact and nolonger Faith , faithing or pisteuo anymore .
So with that background in place , let me ask a question .
How many acts of pisteuo would you guess each and every person fulfills daily ? Think about it , how many times do you engage a specific act , based upon a specific belief , sustained by a specific kind of confidence ?
Here are some examples . And I realize there probably not the greatest examples , but hopefully get the point across .
1) when you went to bed last night , did you check to make sure the air was not bad , and that there was enough air to breath while you slept ?
No , you performed a specific act , got into bed , based upon a specific belief , their was enough good air , and sustained by a specific kind of confidence , you went to sleep risking your life on the results . Now I realize , as so many past acts of pisteuo have been done so many times , they become fact or subliminal , and are really not Faith anymore . But the very first time it was ..
2) when you got out of bed , did you check to make sure the floor would hold your weight ? Did you make sure your legs worked before you walked to the bathroom ?
,3) when got into your car , did you make sure the 25 gallons of gas wasn't leaking 4 feet behind your seat ? When you drove through the intersection on that green light , did you make sure the guy who had the red light was going to stop ?
All these examples are acts of pisteuo or how " Faith" is applied . They are specific acts , based upon specific beliefs , and sustained by a specific kind of confidence . And alot of the time our lives depend on a positive result . I could probably go onto give a thousand examples of how pisteuo , Faith is applied by each of us every day . Most of which may not have anything to do with Faith and faithing towards God .
We were created to be beings of continual faithing .
The word pisteuo in the NT is a specific act , based upon a specific belief , sustained by a specific kind of confidence . This is where the Strongs and Vines definitions come in .
The Strongs gives the disclaimer , " pisteuo means not just to believe " , but to place confidence in, to trust , reliance upon , committed unto , be committed unto ."
The Vines : a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender "
These definitions are the specific acts , based upon the specific belief , sustained by a specific kind of confidence , to become " in Christ " .
Pisteuo does come from the OT Hebrew . The OT has only two pictorial words for Faith .1) the running to the shelter of a mother birds wings . Emphasis on the act of running to something , with the belief that one will be sheltered under the mother birds wings , and sustained by by a continual running towards the shelter .
2) " the leaning on a staff with all your weight behind it " here a decision is made to lean on the staff, the act , based upon the belief that the staff will not break , and sustained by the confidence that I will continue to lean on the staff and make sure all my weight is being surrendered to it . This is fulfilling pisteuo or NT saving Faith , we are to continually surrender ourselves to the staff who is Christ , with the real risk that we are risking our life on something unseen .
The point of fact 10 is to show that the real understanding of pisteuo , faithing , how it is perceived and applied was lost when there was no verb form of Faith put in the English language . It has now become a very big problem because the words they chose to communicate pisteuo , " the words believe , believer , and believing , are not what the Writers of the NT were trying to communicate . Believing is only about one third of what true pisteuo is . Taken on its own starts a path of errors .
One last point for fact 10 .
I can't find a word in the Greek for our word " believe " . Now because we mistranslated, believe into the English language , it will also be mistranslated back out of the English language into the Greek and stamped onto the word pisteuo where it doesn't belong .
In the Greek there are two words for applying Faith or pisteuo . They are pisteuo and apisteuo . Pisteuo is faithing towards God , apisteuo is faithing away from God . In other words , every person ever born in their lives is only doing one of two things , continually surrendering their lives to God , or continually surrendering their lives to something else . There is no middle or neutral ground in which a person is only believing . The Greek language demands one or the other .
I can't find a word in the Greek for our word " believe " . Now because we mistranslated, believe into the English language , it will also be mistranslated back out of the English language into the Greek and stamped onto the word pisteuo where it doesn't belong .
In the Greek there are two words for applying Faith or pisteuo . They are pisteuo and apisteuo . Pisteuo is faithing towards God , apisteuo is faithing away from God . In other words , every person ever born in their lives is only doing one of two things , continually surrendering their lives to God , or continually surrendering their lives to something else . There is no middle or neutral ground in which a person is only believing . The Greek language demands one or the other .