Reconciled to God while enemies !

[Poly]

No the whole world isn't reconciled to God, because the whole world isn't saved. Only the saved within the whole world were reconciled to God by the death of His Son. How do we know this ? Because those reconciled to God by Christs death, having been reconciled, are saved by His Life. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now shall the whole entire world be saved by His Life ? No, many people shall be lost. So its quite clear Christ didn't die for everyone, and reconciled them to God, since the reconciled shall be saved, and the rest shall be lost. The only way to escape this most reasonable and scriptural conclusion, is for one to espouse the heresy of universalism, that all without exception shall be saved. Is that what you believe ? For you to say the whole world is reconciled to God, makes you believe in universalism.

2 Corinthians 5:19
“That is, that God was in Christ RECONCILING THE ****WORLD****TO HIMSELF, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.”

(Beloved57 says these words do not mean what the say in 3….2….1)

 

[beloved57]

2 Corinthians 5:19
“That is, that God was in Christ RECONCILING THE ****WORLD****TO HIMSELF, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.”

(Beloved57 says these words do not mean what the say in 3….2….1)

I believe what it says, I just know world there doesnt mean every individual. Plus the world there is blameless before God, because God doesnt charge or impute sin to it. To ne guitless. So anyone with any understanding knows its not everybody without exception, for plenty of folk have their sins charged to them. Like whrn Jesus tells people in the last day Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Poly]

I believe what it says, I just know world there doesnt mean every individual.

Wouldn’t it have been easier for Him to just say, He reconciled **some*** to Himself? He reconciled ****the chosen*** to Himself? He reconciled the ****elect**** to Himself? Why say *the world*? We know He says He’s not the author of confusion. Why would He want to make this confusing?

 

[Hoping]

Wouldn’t it have been easier for Him to just say, He reconciled **some*** to Himself? He reconciled ****the chosen*** to Himself? He reconciled the ****elect**** to Himself? Why say *the world*? We know He says He’s not the author of confusion. Why would He want to make this confusing?

Good point.
God put the "key to escape" on the "table", but it is up to us to pick it up and use it.

 

[beloved57]

We know that the world that Christ died for and reconciled to God Rom 5:10;2 Cor 5:19 isnt everyone without exception, because all whom He reconciled shall be saved. And we know that all without exception have not been reconciled to God !

 

[Hoping]

We know that the world that Christ died for and reconciled to God Rom 5:10;2 Cor 5:19 isnt everyone without exception, because all whom He reconciled shall be saved. And we know that all without exception have not been reconciled to God !

And the rest didn't submit to God's will.
We all have the choice to make.
Thanks be to God.

 

[JudgeRightly]

We know that the world that Christ died for and reconciled to God Rom 5:10;2 Cor 5:19 isnt everyone without exception, because all whom He reconciled shall be saved. And we know that all without exception have not been reconciled to God!

You have not at all established this. You can't, by the way, because it's false. That aside, you're literally begging the question at this point, with ZERO support. Assertion without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. But I'll even provide the evidence that you're wrong:

God reconciled the world. That's what Scripture says.

WE believers are the ones who will be saved. That's what Scripture says.

THEY (the world) are told "BE RECONCILED." That's what Scripture says.

What scripture does NOT say is that "world" means "believers."

In fact, Jesus says the exact opposite!

John 17:9-18: 9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

He says it TWICE!

Believers are NOT the world. The world is NOT believers.

Made even more clear by what He said just one chapter earlier:

John 16:8-11: 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

Jesus will CONVICT the world of their sin, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT BELIEVE!!!!

That's why Paul says, BE RECONCILED!

 

[beloved57]

The world of people that Christ died for, and reconciled them to God by His Sons Death, they shall be saved by His Life. Read Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his
life.

This most blessedly means being born again, and or passing from death to life

 

[JudgeRightly]

B57: I'm just going to ignore everything that was just said and continue pushing my beliefs.

 

[beloved57]

According to Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Were believers reconciled to God by believing or by the death of Christ?

 

[JudgeRightly]

According to Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Why do you continue to do your theology on verses as if they were in a vacuum?

Were believers reconciled to God by believing or by the death of Christ?

The ENTIRE WORLD was reconciled to God by the death of Christ.

BELIEVERS, who "were reconciled to God by the death of His Son," (because Christ's death happened 2000 years ago) are SAVED by Christ's life, because we BELIEVERS have BELIEVED, and thus, "shall be saved." In other words, "for by grace you have been saved through faith..." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

It's. LITERALLY. THAT. SIMPLE.

 

[marke]

According to Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Were believers reconciled to God by believing or by the death of Christ?

Calvinists believe God cannot reconcile the world unto Himself by Jesus' death but can only save some while not allowing others to come to Jesus for salvation. Calvinists limit God but they are wrong for doing so.

 

[beloved57]

@JudgeRightly

The ENTIRE WORLD was reconciled to God by the death of Christ.

Thats not true, then there would be universal salvation, which is not scriptural. The world that was reconciled to God by Christs death #1 has no sins charged to it at all 2 Cor 5:19

19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So the reconciled world of people are saved from their sins, not being imputed= forgiveness and Justification

and #2 the reconciled people by the death of Christ , being reconciled, shall be saved by Christs life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now again, shall all humanity be saved by His Life as promised here ? Nope, that is universalism which you know and I know the scripture doesn't teach. So reconciliation only applies to the world of people who God doesn't impute sin, His Elect ! It can never ever apply to the lost people of humanity!

 

[marke]

@JudgeRightly



Thats not true, then there would be universal salvation, which is not scriptural. The world that was reconciled to God by Christs death #1 has no sins charged to it at all 2 Cor 5:19

19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So the reconciled world of people are saved from their sins, not being imputed= forgiveness and Justification

and #2 the reconciled people by the death of Christ , being reconciled, shall be saved by Christs life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now again, shall all humanity be saved by His Life as promised here ? Nope, that is universalism which you know and I know the scripture doesn't teach. So reconciliation only applies to the world of people who God doesn't impute sin, His Elect ! It can never ever apply to the lost people of humanity!

Reconciling the world as referred to in 2 Corinthians 5 does not mean forgiving all the sinners of the world for all their sins. We know that because after God reconciled the world unto Himself He commissioned disciples to go into all the world and implore every creature to reconcile themselves to God. When a sinner reconciles himself to God he does have his sins forgiven, but not before he reconciles himself to God.

 

[beloved57]

Now those whom Christ died for and were reconciled to God, their sins were not counted against them, because Christ has satisfied the debt of them in full, hence God will not impute sin to them period Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Those sins Christ satisfied for, are covered,

Thats the reconciled Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Christs death didn't cover all men's sins, for there is no such thing as universal reconciliation, so the world reconciled to God is restricted, to Gods elect.

 

[JudgeRightly]

@JudgeRightly

You need to use the quote button, not just mention the user you're responding to. Next time you don't use the quote button, you're getting dinged. I've told you to do so multiple times now.

Thats not true, then there would be universal salvation, which is not scriptural.

Why?

You set up this straw man against my position, you must think you know what I believe...

Problem is, is that it's just that, a straw man.

It's not what I believe.

I don't believe in "universal salvation."

I believe, as per the Bible, that God reconciled the WORLD to Himself, but that only those who believe in Him shall be saved.

You automatically assume that because reconciliation is provided to everyone, that therefore all must be saved, but the only reason you believe that is because you assume "reconciled" is equivalent to "saved." It's not. They are two different "steps" in the process. You can't be saved without being reconciled, sure. But that does not automatically mean that you can't be reconciled without being saved, as you point out very well in your next verse.

The world that was reconciled to God by Christs death #1 has no sins charged to it at all

Reading your doctrine into the text will never lead you to the right answer, except by accident, and that is very rare. And indeed, it has not happened here to you.

The world is the world. The WORLD was reconciled. It was reconciled by Christ's death. Thus, the sins of the world are not imputed upon them.

That doesn't mean they're saved, b57. It means that their sins are not imputed upon them.

Someone isn't saved based on their works! Sins are evil works!

A person is saved based ONLY on their relationship with God! That's what it means when it says that the world's trespasses are not imputed unto them. It's not talking about their salvation. It's talking about God providing a means for the world to know Him!-

2 Cor 5:19
19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

You should read the surrounding context! If it meant what you said, then Paul would never have stated what he did immediately following!

2 Corinthians 5:16-21: 16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Don't you get it?

Paul is saying that God through Christ reconciled the world, and then gave us Christians the gospel to go preach to them, so that they may come to know Him, and call upon His name to be saved!

"... as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God!"

How can someone obey that command if they don't have the freedom to do it to begin with!?

Your doctrines make Paul out to be a lunatic who has no idea what he's saying, whereas my position shows Paul to be pleading with unbelievers to be reconciled to God, so that they may be saved!

So the reconciled world of people are saved from their sins, not being imputed= forgiveness and Justification

Wrong.

and #2 the reconciled people by the death of Christ , being reconciled, shall be saved by Christs life

SHALL BE SAVED, B57!

Not "ARE SAVED"!

They are already reconciled!

All they have to do is call upon the name of the Lord, as per Romans 10:9-10!

Their sins aren't imputed to them. They will go to hell based on their rejection of Him, not because of their sins.

If they call upon God to save them, He is merciful and just to do so! They SHALL BE SAVED BY CHRIST'S LIFE!

Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

AMEN!

Now again, shall all humanity be saved by His Life as promised here?

Same straw man as above.

I have not stated that those who are reconciled are saved. I have stated the opposite, in fact. Those who are reconciled are NOT saved unless and until they are saved by Christ's life, and God saves those whom He shall save based upon Romans 10:9-10.

Nope, that is universalism which you know and I know the scripture doesn't teach. So reconciliation only applies to the world of people who God doesn't impute sin, His Elect ! It can never ever apply to the lost people of humanity!

I don't teach universalism.

Try addressing the argument being made to you, not what you wish your opponent was arguing.

Now those whom Christ died for and were reconciled to God, their sins were not counted against them, because Christ has satisfied the debt of them in full, hence God will not impute sin to them period

Begging the question of calvinism.

Christ died for the entire world. The entire world has been reconciled to God. Their sins have not been imputed to them. Men will go to heaven or hell based ONLY upon their relationship with God, either they go to hell because they reject Him, or they go to heaven because they accept His free gift.

Those who go to hell will suffer the full punishment for their sins, because their accounts, while their sins were not imputed to them, were never wiped away. They were reconciled, but not saved.
Those who go to heaven have their sins forgiven and their accounts wiped clean.

Rom 4:7-8
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Those sins Christ satisfied for, are covered,

Thats the reconciled Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

More Calvinist rhetoric. Not the scripture, obviously.

Christs death didn't cover all men's sins,

You're arguing with scripture, at this point.

for there is no such thing as universal reconciliation,

Never said there was. Straw man.

so the world reconciled to God is restricted, to Gods elect.

False dichotomy.

 

[marke]

Now those whom Christ died for and were reconciled to God, their sins were not counted against them, because Christ has satisfied the debt of them in full, hence God will not impute sin to them period Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Those sins Christ satisfied for, are covered,

Thats the reconciled Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Christs death didn't cover all men's sins, for there is no such thing as universal reconciliation, so the world reconciled to God is restricted, to Gods elect.

None of the passages you quoted tell us God has no desire to save all men if only they would repent of sins and ask him for forgiveness.

 

[beloved57]

The Death of Christ objectively reconciled them He died for to God, thus ensuring their subjective reconciliation by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Each objectively reconciled enemy , shall be subjectively reconciled to God, this occurs when they are regenerated, given Spiritual Life from their resurrected Savior. If one is never born again, its safe to say they were never reconciled to God objectively by the death of Christ, meaning He didnt die for them.

 

[marke]

The Death of Christ objectively reconciled them He died for to God, thus ensuring their subjective reconciliation by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Each objectively reconciled enemy , shall be subjectively reconciled to God, this occurs when they are regenerated, given Spiritual Life from their resurrected Savior. If one is never born again, its safe to say they were never reconciled to God objectively by the death of Christ, meaning He didnt die for them.

Nowhere in the Bible does God claim He has no desire to save anyone for willingly responding to the gospel preaching but desires and purposes for most people to burn in hell no matter whether they respond to the gospel or not.