Receiving Christ as Your Savior

[Ask Mr. Religion]

A helpful fact that I picked up from PPS, is that the word for "sin" when used in regard to Christ being made sin for His people on the cross, proves to be an anarthrous NOUN (rather than a verb).

Thus, the "thing" sin, that Christ became, and put to death on the cross, was the "thing" that causes all sinful actions/consequences to which you refer.

I found this linguistic fact to be very helpful . . but I would be interested in knowing if the Hebrew word for "evil" in Isaiah 45:7 is also considered a NOUN, in like manner, in any instance, or not.

???

The Hebrew word translated as evil in the Isaiah passage is the calamities, afflictions, woes, distresses, and miseries that God brings about in judgment for the sins of a nation. This is actually good, in that God brings it about righteously (see also Amos 3:6; Lamentations 3:38).

The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is, the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.”

So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture–that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him. In the context of the Isaiah passage, where there is a preceding pair of antithetical ideas ("light" and "darkness"), it is exegetically certain that the Hebrew word here is intended as the opposite, not of goodness or virtue, but of salom ("peace" or "welfare").

We need to unpack the "made sin" issue a wee bit here. As a surety, Our Lord 'was made sin for us' (2 Corinthians 5:21), and He bore our sins, which is evident by the kind of death He suffered, not only sharp and shameful—but accursed, having a sense of God's wrath linked to it.

Nevertheless, the filth of our nature was not transmitted to Our Lord. Just as the passover lamb does not become a pig, though Our Lord was "made sin", yet He was not made a sinner by any infusion or transplantation of sin into His nature. It was impossible His holiness could be defiled with our filth.

By being made sin, it is understood as being made a sacrifice for sin, hence sin was then legally transferred on the antitype, as it was on the types in the Jewish service by the ceremony of laying on of hands and confessing of sin, after which the thing so dedicated became accursed and though it was in itself innocent, yet was guilty in the sight of the law and as a substitute. In the same manner was Our Lord accounted. Believers are personally guilty, but by virtue of the satisfaction of this sacrifice (Our Lord's) imputed to them, they are judicially counted innocent. Our Lord, who never sinned, is put in such a state as if He had.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

You like to argue religion. You can't answer serious questions like how has God reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ? 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

When it comes to questions like that, you throw up a thousand word smoke screen that nobody can understand.

You can't believe that God is at piece with the world because of the doing and the dying of Jesus, Colossians 1:20. That does not fit with your Calvinist doctrine.

Like I said...

When a man has nothing substantive to say, his only opportunity to be seen comes in the form of vitriol....Otherwise, your mere blogged opinions are noted....

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I resent you calling Calvinism "The Reformed Faith".

You resent what you do not know, as you are often found to do, Robert.

While on the one hand it is true that not all Calvinists are Reformed, yet on the other hand it is implicitly true that all Reformed are Calvinists. This is the plain fact of the matter, and all the historical Reformed confessions of faith (Second Helvetic Confession, Belgic Confession, Heidelberg Catechism or the Westminster Standards) bear this out.

The Reformed tradition of faith is more than just the five points of Calvinism. For more on the actual history of the topic see here:

http://www.the-highway.com/how-many-points_Muller.html

If you would actually read Luther on the matter of justification, you would find that Luther plainly stating the "faith" that is justifying is solely the work of God, not that of the so-called free will of the believer that you would claim. You cannot appeal to Luther merely on his views of justification without also accepting his views on exactly how one comes to be justified.

In other words, your terribly incorrect view...

And you and you alone are responsible for your salvation.

...would be summarily rejected by Luther, who wrote, "...by the power of 'free-will' none at all could be saved, but every one of us would perish." (Bondage of the Will (1525), 7:18).

Even today's Lutheran, which is Arminian-like in many ways, would reject your view (see their Augsburg Confession for details).

AMR

 

[Crucible]

I resent you calling Calvinism "The Reformed Faith".

The reformation was not about Calvinism. The reformation was about Martin Luther and his doctrine of justification by faith. John Calvin was jealous of Luther and wanted to come up with his own doctrine based upon predestination. Luther wanted no part of it.

Luther didn't necessarily have the patent on reformed notions. From Augustine on, there's been many saints and theologians with emphasis of predestination, election, and an immutability of God.

Luther and Calvin were very alike, they simply differed on certain things. For example, Luther believed that the only way a person can lose their salvation is if they become apostate, whereas Calvin believed that if a person becomes apostate than they were never saved to begin with. He didn't like Luther's notion that salvation can be lost and given back again.

You're not doing yourself any justice at all bringing up Luther- he would think you're a heretic just like the rest of the MADists and 'non-religious Christians' around here

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

@Nabbu

You believe that the evil that God created as written in the book of Isaiah is good.

A. True I believe the evil that God created as written in the book of Isaiah is good.

B. False I do not believe the evil that God created as written in the book of Isaiah is good.

I write quite plainly in my posts, so there is no need to seek verification of what I have plainly stated. I do not play puerile twenty questions or whack-a-mole games such that someone can hope to claim "gotcha!" on matters related to sacred topics. If you have some actual points to make, then state them plainly and fully such that an actual discussion might take place.

The calamity (translated in the KJV as evil) spoken of in Isaiah was a righteous judgment from God. Hence good. That men may perceive God's bringing down judgments as evil, has no bearing on God's good actions.

Please play careful attention to the discussion I was having with another, versus just bursting midway into the discussion with your silly methodology. The topic at hand is the fact that there is no metaphysical substance, evil, that is created by God. More particularly, moral evil is not a "thing", rather it is the consequence of sinful actions. God is not the doer of evil, man is the bad actor, sinning, and evil is the result of said acts.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I will give you another chance to do the right thing in the eyes of God.

You believe that the evil that God created as written in the book of Isaiah is good.

A. True I believe the evil that God created as written in the book of Isaiah is good.

B. False I do not believe the evil that God created as written in the book of Isaiah is good.

How old are you?

AMR

 

[Squeaky]

How old are you?

AMR

I said
lol If you find out let me know. All his questions are full of guile.

 

[Robert Pate]

The title of this thread is "Receiving Christ as Your Savior". No one seems to want to talk about receiving Christ as your savior. Calvinist do not believe that they need to receive Christ as their savior, seeing that they believe that they have predestinated to salvation before the foundation of the world. Who needs Christ and his Gospel?

Paul wrote, "The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation" Romans 1:16

No where in the bible does it say that "predestination" is the power of God unto salvation. Its not there because it is not true. No one will be saved that does not receive Jesus Christ and his Gospel.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life: NO MAN CAN COME TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME" John 14:6.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

No one seems to want to talk about receiving Christ as your savior.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life: NO MAN CAN COME TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME" John 14:6.

Would that the originator of this thread actually knew how to properly talk about receiving Christ.

Indeed, it is only by what Our Lord accomplished that anyone can be brought into the Kingdom. This is the majestic and exclusive claim that only Christianity makes, setting aside all other belief systems. Exactly how is one brought into the Kingdom of God?

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

Our Lord is not telling one to take charge of his own salvation and make a good decision. Rather "You must be born again" is is simply a statement of fact, not a command to be obeyed. It is a declarative, not an imperative, sentence.

In fact, the words of the Our Lord, instead of suggesting that Nicodemus should assume personal responsibility for his own salvation, teach exactly the opposite idea.

The purpose of the entire Nicodemus passage might be summarized like this: Regeneration is not something any man can do, for flesh can only produce flesh. It is a miraculous work of God's Spirit, who blows when and where He pleases.

Our Lord here is saying, "Yes, Nicodemus, the new birth is a necessity, but neither you nor any other man can cause it to happen, even if you could think of a way to return to the womb of your mother. Only God can perform this work."

Clearly, Robert is much like the hapless Nicodemus, thinking he must assume personal responsibility for his own salvation, for according to Robert,

And you and you alone are responsible for your salvation.

I prefer to believe what Our Lord said, not what Nicodemus or Robert said. :AMR1:

AMR

 

[flintstoned]

The title of this thread is "Receiving Christ as Your Savior". No one seems to want to talk about receiving Christ as your savior. Calvinist do not believe that they need to receive Christ as their savior, seeing that they believe that they have predestinated to salvation before the foundation of the world. Who needs Christ and his Gospel?

Paul wrote, "The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation" Romans 1:16

No where in the bible does it say that "predestination" is the power of God unto salvation. Its not there because it is not true. No one will be saved that does not receive Jesus Christ and his Gospel.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life: NO MAN CAN COME TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME" John 14:6.

Why do you keep spreading falsehoods? You have been told numerous times that this is false, yet you keep deliberately telling untruths.

 

[Robert Pate]

Would that the originator of this thread actually knew how to properly talk about receiving Christ.

Indeed, it is only by what Our Lord accomplished that anyone can be brought into the Kingdom. This is the majestic and exclusive claim that only Christianity makes, setting aside all other belief systems. Exactly how is one brought into the Kingdom of God?

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

Our Lord is not telling one to take charge of his own salvation and make a good decision. Rather "You must be born again" is is simply a statement of fact, not a command to be obeyed. It is a declarative, not an imperative, sentence.

In fact, the words of the Our Lord, instead of suggesting that Nicodemus should assume personal responsibility for his own salvation, teach exactly the opposite idea.

The purpose of the entire Nicodemus passage might be summarized like this: Regeneration is not something any man can do, for flesh can only produce flesh. It is a miraculous work of God's Spirit, who blows when and where He pleases.

Our Lord here is saying, "Yes, Nicodemus, the new birth is a necessity, but neither you nor any other man can cause it to happen, even if you could think of a way to return to the womb of your mother. Only God can perform this work."

Clearly, Robert is much like the hapless Nicodemus, thinking he must assume personal responsibility for his own salvation, for according to Robert,



I prefer to believe what Our Lord said, not what Nicodemus or Robert said. :AMR1:

AMR

The only way that one can be born again is by hearing and believing the Gospel.

On the day of Pentecost 8,000 Jews heard and believed Peter's Gospel and were born again, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.

Calvinist cannot tell you when they were born again, nor can they tell you about their salvation experience, because they have never had one.

Paul said, "So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

Paul also wrote, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

Calvinist want us to believe that they were mysteriously zapped with the Holy Spirit and became born again.

The Bible teaches no such thing, What it does teach is that you must hear and believe the Gospel.

 

[Robert Pate]

Why do you keep spreading falsehoods? You have been told numerous times that this is false, yet you keep deliberately telling untruths.

Show me in the scriptures where it says that predestination is the power of God unto salvation. While you are at it show me a scripture where it says that God has predestinated soneone to heaven or to hell.

 

[Nang]

Calvinist cannot tell you when they were born again, nor can they tell you about their salvation experience, because they have never had one.

I can tell you in great detail when I was regenerated and raised from death to new spiritual life through being given grace and faith to believe in God and His Word. In fact, that has been my testimony that I have shared openly and often on TOL since I joined in 2007.

Where have you been?

I am sorry you have never paid me any attention . . .

It seems you are simply content to make false accusations against Christians day after day, as some sort of perverted entertainment.

That is sick. That is wrong. And all your repetitive posts are nothing but tiresome and devilish, IMO.

 

[patrick jane]

I can tell you in great detail when I was regenerated and raised from death to new spiritual life through being given grace and faith to believe in God and His Word. In fact, that has been my testimony that I have shared openly and often on TOL since I joined in 2007.

Where have you been?

I am sorry you have never paid me any attention . . .

It seems you are simply content to make false accusations against Christians day after day, as some sort of perverted entertainment.

That is sick. That is wrong. And all your repetitive posts are nothing but tiresome and devilish, IMO.

You must be describing beloved57

 

[beloved57]

Show me in the scriptures where it says that predestination is the power of God unto salvation. While you are at it show me a scripture where it says that God has predestinated soneone to heaven or to hell.

Fighting with scripture Ephesians 1:5

 

[beloved57]

The only way that one can be born again is by hearing and believing the Gospel.

On the day of Pentecost 8,000 Jews heard and believed Peter's Gospel and were born again, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.

Calvinist cannot tell you when they were born again, nor can they tell you about their salvation experience, because they have never had one.

Paul said, "So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

Paul also wrote, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

Calvinist want us to believe that they were mysteriously zapped with the Holy Spirit and became born again.

The Bible teaches no such thing, What it does teach is that you must hear and believe the Gospel.

Only those born of God hears God's words Jn 8:43,47

 

[Robert Pate]

I can tell you in great detail when I was regenerated and raised from death to new spiritual life through being given grace and faith to believe in God and His Word. In fact, that has been my testimony that I have shared openly and often on TOL since I joined in 2007.

Where have you been?

I am sorry you have never paid me any attention . . .

It seems you are simply content to make false accusations against Christians day after day, as some sort of perverted entertainment.

That is sick. That is wrong. And all your repetitive posts are nothing but tiresome and devilish, IMO.

You are not a Christian. You are trusting in your self. Your salvation is not Christ centered, it is self centered.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Robert Pate's Abominable Claim

Robert Pate's Abominable Claim

Calvinist want us to believe that they were mysteriously zapped with the Holy Spirit and became born again.

The Bible teaches no such thing, What it does teach is that you must hear and believe the Gospel.

Sadly, Robert, you just do not have a good understanding of what Scripture teaches. It has been explained to you what Scripture means by statements of fact, as in your "you must hear and believe" or Our Lord's "you must be born again":

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-Your-Savior&p=4848714&viewfull=1#post4848714

Rather than offering in detail exactly how you see Scripture actually teaching that these statements imply an inherent moral ability for an unbeliever to improve their own grace—while robbing God of His glory in the process—you just offer up the same redundant opinions. Your usual response is to just move the goalposts and press onward. Cherry-picking verses here and there, quoting them, and declaring victory is a common behavior of the person not equipped to effectively wrestle with the full counsel of Scripture.

Robert, add this to your signature as it suits you nicely:

And you and you alone are responsible for your salvation.

Your abominable statement above, denying Our Lord's own direct teachings that one's re-birth is the work of the Holy Spirit who acts where and when He pleases, not when, where or if you please (John 3:1-8), gives the reader ready insight into what is going on in your prayer closet:

Robert Pate's odious prayer to His maker:
​

“Lord, I thank thee that I am not like these poor, presumptuous Calvinists. Lord, I was born with a glorious free will; I was born with a power by which I can turn to thee of myself; I have improved my grace. If everybody had done the same with their grace as I have, they might all have been saved. Lord, I know that thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves… it was not thy grace that made us differ… I made use of what was given me, and others did not—that is the difference between me and them.”​

Src: Spurgeon, Sermon on John 5:40 “Free Will a Slave” The New Park Street Pulpit, 1855- 1856, Volumes I & II (Pilgrim 1975), 395-402.​

​

Robert, quite simply, the prayer above accurately captures the summary of your views, and thusly, your fervent prayer. Your own words, that you and you alone are responsible for your salvation, testify to just how far beyond the bounds of Scripture you have wandered. When you meet Saint Peter, be sure to remind him that His Lord was a liar, for it was Peter and Peter alone that was responsible for his own salvation.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

You {Nang} are not a Christian. You are trusting in your self. Your salvation is not Christ centered, it is self centered.

Better you examine yourself, Robert, rather than usurping God's prerogatives to dispose of His creatures as He sees fit.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-Your-Savior&p=4849389&viewfull=1#post4849389

There can be no more a self-centered claim than to claim:

And you and you alone are responsible for your salvation.

Beam. Eye. Remove it.

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

"My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteous".

Your hope is built on the doctrine of John Calvin.