Saying it doesn't make it so.
The Truth isn't what you say it is.
Do you not understand what was said in Posts 69, 71, 73, 74, 75, 77, and 79?
Received because Given !
- Thread starter beloved57
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Saying it doesn't make it so.
The Truth isn't what you say it is.
Do you not understand what was said in Posts 69, 71, 73, 74, 75, 77, and 79?
Saying it doesn't make it so.
I demonstrated clearly how this is false. It's the bible you have a problem with which is why you can't deal with it honestly. You're forced to pry individual phrases and sentences from its context and use them a pretexts to prop up a theology that, at this point, even you must be starting to see is standing a foundation of sand.
If God deliberately withholds salvation from most of His creatures can you explain why He claims He has no pleasure in their death? Why would God be pleased to see helpless creatures of His making burn in hell?
Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
beloved57
Well-known member
We know that to receive Spiritual gifts it has to be given, because Christ saying of the non elect world, that they cannot receive the Spirit He was sending
Jn 14:17
. “Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him, but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.”
The world here and the people in which constitute it, dont have the freewill to receive the Spirit of Truth, so obviously Hes not given them!
Jn 14:17
. “Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him, but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.”
The world here and the people in which constitute it, dont have the freewill to receive the Spirit of Truth, so obviously Hes not given them!
The world cannot receive the things of God because the sinners of the world will not repent of their sins so that God could give them the gifts of God. Claiming God gives no human reason for the inability of a sinner to believe God is an error. It is not God's will that sinners reject God, but the matter lies entirely with the sinner and his willful decision alone.
A sinner can humble himself if he wants to. If he chooses not to humble himself then God cannot help Him.
John 5:44
How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
2 Chronicles 12:7
And when the Lord saw that they humbled themselves, the word of the Lord came to Shemaiah, saying, They have humbled themselves; therefore I will not destroy them, but I will grant them some deliverance; and my wrath shall not be poured out upon Jerusalem by the hand of Shishak.
James 4:10
Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up
1 Peter 5:6
Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
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beloved57
Well-known member
Repentance is something given from God to sinners, so if God gives it, they can receive it, because He gave it Acts 5:31
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 11:18
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Now those who God from above gives repentance they can and do receive it Jn 3:27
27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
So consequently, those who refuse to repent of sin and remain stubborn, which all do by nature, it just goes to show that God didnt give them repentance, so they cannnot receive it.
False.
God is not arbitrary.
God gave His Son to the world. What they do with Him determines their eternal destination.
Brilliant point, Marke!
“We cannot assign any reason for his bestowing mercy on his people, but just as it so pleases him, neither can we have any reason for his reprobating others but his will.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 11)
Let's study what the Bible says about repentance:
- Luke 3:3
And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
God cannot save any sinner who does not repent because this verse suggests the baptism of repentance was or is necessary for the remission of sins. - Luke 3:8
Bring forth, therefore, fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
God's message to sinners: Don't sit around waiting for God to give you repentance. Go out yourself and obtain the fruits worthy of repentance so God can help you. - Luke 5:32
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
God is commanding sinners to repent, not the righteous. - Luke 15:7
I say unto you, that likewise, joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
God and all the angels rejoice every time a sinner repents, more than rejoicing over sinners who need no repentance. - Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
God commands all men everywhere to repent and He does not take kindly to any sinners who tell Him no.
beloved57
Well-known member
Those whom God gave His Son to He causes them to receive Him. Scripture says some receive Him Jn 1:12
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Received, the same greek word as in Jn 3:27
Those who received Him, they weren't forced, it had been given them from heaven ! The word received in Jn 12 is the same word in Jn 3:27, hence its given to people to believe in Christ Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Its given from heaven !
You still have it backwards.
Those who receive Christ are the ones whom God gives to the Son.
God doesn't cause people to receive Christ. They have to do that willingly.
But not all receive Him!
Which is exactly my point! If someone REJECTS Christ, then he will NOT be given the power to become a son of God.
Causing someone to accept something is just another way of saying "forced," ESPECIALLY in the way calvinists use the term "cause."
Given does not imply received.
I can hand you a Christmas present, even shove it into your hands, at a Christmas party, but YOU have to be the one to decide to hold onto it, or it will fall onto the floor.
In the same way, God gave His Son to the world, and through the spreading of the gospel, even forces it into their hands. If they take it, and believe, they will be saved.
On the other hand, if they simply refuse to take it, and don't try to hold onto it, and reject that gift, then they will not be saved, for they have NOT received it, but God has still given them the gift!
I have addressed this before. Repeating yourself won't change my answer.
You blaspheme God by teaching that God desires that all sinners go to hell except for a select number He shows mercy on for His own reasons that have nothing to do with the sinners' desire to be saved and delivered from sin.
beloved57
Well-known member
According to Phil 1:29 how was it they came to believe on Christ ?
You say out of one side of your mouth that "they weren't forced" and out of the other will state that you believe in "irresistible grace".
What's more is that you will twist any concept relating to their "choice" into meaningless gibberish in order to preserve the plain meaning of "irresistible grace" which reveals the real truth, which is that you believe that they had no choice and could not have done otherwise.
This is just one more example of how the Calvinist cannot state one core doctrine without contradicting another. They tolerate it themselves by compartmentalizing the contradictory issues and hardly ever talking about them together. On the occasion when they are forced to confront the contradiction they "fix" it by simply declaring that there is no contradiction and move on to another subject. If you press them, they will usually blow you off and ignore you but, if they don't do that, what they will do is pull out the all encompassing "mystery" and "antinomy" trump cards and tell you that it's a matter of "faith", which is a word that you won't hardly be able to get them to define, by the way. What they mean by it though is, more or less, "blind belief" or "belief in the absence of, or in opposition to evidence to the contrary". As it is with so many things in Calvinism, this conception of faith is the worldly understanding of faith. The Calvinists share this idea with practically every pagan on planet Earth, most especially the ancient Greeks from which sprang practically their entire theological construct.
The biblical concept of faith, by the way, has to do with trust in and acting upon the substance of things hoped for and evidence of things not seen with your eye balls (Hebrews 11:1). God hides Himself but not completely. The evidence of not only His existence but His majesty, righteousness and justice are all over the place. The only question is whether we will accept the verdict of the evidence that we swim in and that cannot be missed. (Romans 1:20).
Clete
beloved57
Well-known member
Those who receive abundance of Grace and the gift of righteusness as in Rom 5:17
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
They only receive it because it was given to them from heaven, for it is written Jn 3:27
27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
Agaim men cannot receive special heavenly, and Spiritual gifts and abilities save its given to them Matt 19:11
But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
They only receive it because it was given to them from heaven, for it is written Jn 3:27
27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
Agaim men cannot receive special heavenly, and Spiritual gifts and abilities save its given to them Matt 19:11
But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
In light of 1 John Christians are given additional faith after they believe and are saved.
1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Likewise, Christians are also given the privilege of suffering for Christ after they believe and are saved.
Philippians 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
What must a sinner do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
- Acts 16:30
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
- Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
beloved57
Well-known member
You failed to answer a simple question friend.
I cannot help you. If you need assurance that you correctly interpret and understand scripture you need to go to God for that.
You are such a hypocrite! How many hundreds of times have you failed to even respond at all to direct questions? You routinely ignore practically every word that is said to you!
As I said before, you don't know how to ask questions that aren't loaded. Why focus such a question on just one single sentence, as though Paul, the author of that sentence, would teach something different there than he does everywhere else? The reason why is because you don't care about understanding what the bible actually teaches but rather about how you can twist the scriptures to fit your pet doctrines.
People come to believe by hearing the word of God. That's how it happens. It isn't magic and it isn't by God blowing faith dust in their face. Its by God sending a preacher to declare His truth in their hearing....
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
And that portion of scripture come immediately after Paul said this...
Romans 10:9b “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Clete
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beloved57
Well-known member
The regenerate saints who God Loves are the ones who receive the word of God Deut 33:3
Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.
Remember Jesus said of disciples , save judas of course Jn 17:8
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
Understand the words of Christ are spirit or spiritual Jn 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life
But since His disciples were made Spiritual, they received His words, they were His Saints, and they received them because it was given them from heaven Jn 3:27 !
Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.
Remember Jesus said of disciples , save judas of course Jn 17:8
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
Understand the words of Christ are spirit or spiritual Jn 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life
But since His disciples were made Spiritual, they received His words, they were His Saints, and they received them because it was given them from heaven Jn 3:27 !