Racism, Bigotry and Misogyny at TOL

quip

BANNED
Banned
Sure it does, if i knew i could die of lung cancer because of smoking and i continued or started doing it anyway, and then got lung cancer - i chose it because i willfully denied the risks.

There are 2 definitions of choose (not just one like some wish to pretend):

choose
CHo͞oz/
verb
verb: choose; 3rd person present: chooses; past tense: chose; gerund or present participle: choosing; past participle: chosen

1) pick out or select (someone or something) as being the best or most appropriate of two or more alternatives.

2) decide on a course of action, typically after rejecting alternatives.

You're being overly captious.

Ignoring possible risks does not equate to rejecting an alternative. Lung cancer is a risk from smoking not an alternative to smoking...not smoking is an alternative to smoking.

You're attempting to place some misguided moral burden upon an action you find reprehensible. But look at this from another perspective:

Do you have children? If so, you chose to carry a child for nine months at risk to your own life. As a result, your choice was good as the risk(s) involved were averted, though.....

Do you consider those women who die during childbirth as alternately choosing death over life? I surely hope not...as that same presumed burden is rendered absurd.
 

WizardofOz

New member
Or, if you see a doctor and they tell you that if you have a child, there is a high probability that they will be born with a handicap.

If that couple decides to proceed with getting pregnant, did they choose to have a child with a handicap if that is the ultimate outcome or was that outcome a result of chance based on higher probabilities of such risk?
 

alwight

New member
Which has nothing to do with what i said. The risks in the examples and those in the beginning of the entire discussion go directly to cause and effect of known information and ignoring it knowing full well the risk is high.

Like this:

1) Deliberately leaving your keys in your empty running car where you are absent - to getting it stolen
2) Deliberately flashing around huge wads of cash in an area known for a high theft rate

and on and on.

What you said is not a case where you DELIBERATELY do something with full knowledge of an increase of specific risks involved, thanks for playing though.
Just walking along the street carries an inherent risk of being hit by a car or being mugged and killed. Anyone who DELIBERATELY spends more time than they actually need to on the street is knowingly increasing that risk. People should keep off the streets whenever possible, right?

Anyone who eats processed meat is apparently increasing the chances of bowel cancer, so anyone who eats processed meat and gets bowel cancer has only themselves to blame, right?

Have you never heard of taking calculated risks?
We do it all the time, it's a part of life, and sometimes we loose, but it doesn't make us culpable.
:plain:
 

PureX

Well-known member
Just living life carries an inherent risk of death from many sources but that doesn't mean that you chose to die if the worst happened.
Not even if we smoked, or drank alcohol, or ate fatty foods and didn't exercise. Because no one does those things hoping or intending that they be killed by it. (Almost no one, anyway.) And no one knows that they will be killed by it, if they do.
 

PureX

Well-known member
Which has nothing to do with what i said. The risks in the examples and those in the beginning of the entire discussion go directly to cause and effect of known information and ignoring it knowing full well the risk is high.

Like this:

1) Deliberately leaving your keys in your empty running car where you are absent - to getting it stolen
2) Deliberately flashing around huge wads of cash in an area known for a high theft rate

and on and on.

What you said is not a case where you DELIBERATELY do something with full knowledge of an increase of specific risks involved, thanks for playing though.
Except that NO ONE DOES THAT. Because no one knows the actual risk but the perpetrator. And even he doesn't know what he'll do until he decides to do it.
 

Quetzal

New member
Except that NO ONE DOES THAT. Because no one knows the actual risk but the perpetrator. And even he doesn't know what he'll do until he decides to do it.
There is also something to be said in regards to common, acceptable risk. That is, there is a chance that if I walk on the sidewalk that I will get clobbered by a wayward vehicle. However, that should not stop someone from walking on the sidewalk. When you begin to live your life according to fringe fears (as I like to call them, that is, a fear that is statistically unlikely to happen), you aren't really living at all. Going back to my example with the lost vehicle plowing into me. It is not my fault that I got hit by a car. The same logic can apply to other situations as well.
 

PureX

Well-known member
There is also something to be said in regards to common, acceptable risk. That is, there is a chance that if I walk on the sidewalk that I will get clobbered by a wayward vehicle. However, that should not stop someone from walking on the sidewalk. When you begin to live your life according to fringe fears (as I like to call them, that is, a fear that is statistically unlikely to happen), you aren't really living at all. Going back to my example with the lost vehicle plowing into me. It is not my fault that I got hit by a car. The same logic can apply to other situations as well.
Also, we don't actually know the risks of any specific thing happening at any specific time and place.

Hillary Clinton supposedly won four coin tosses in a row in Iowa the other day, to break four tied caucuses. Some people will think that's unlikely; that there was only a 1 in 4 chance that it could happen like that. But in truth it was 50/50 in each instance, that Hillary would win, which tells us absolutely nothing in advance about the probable outcomes of those tied caucuses.

When a woman walks down a street at night, alone, wearing a short skirt, people think she has increased the likelihood of her being raped. But in fact, the only possible outcomes in this scenario are rape, or no rape. So the odds of her being raped remain 50/50 regardless of the night, the skirt, and her being alone. And that 50/50 option tells us absolutely nothing, in advance of the outcome, about the likelihood of her being raped as the outcome.

But that won't stop lots of people who WANT TO BELIEVE THAT SHE IS SOMEHOW RESPONSIBLE from imagining that the darkness, the skirt, and being alone were choices that she made that increased her likelihood of being raped, and so therefor the rape is partly her fault. (Because that's the conclusion they wanted to arrive at from the start.)

Whenever a woman has sexual intercourse without the self-righteous misogynistic Christian's permission, she must be punished for it (in their minds). So that even if the sexual intercourse has been forced on her, the force itself becomes the punishment for the non-sanctioned sex act. Hence: some blame has to be found, and placed on her, to justify the judgment of her 'sin' (having sex without their permission) and the punishment (having the sex forced on her).

I know this is bizarre, but this is what happens, I think, in the minds of the self-righteous misogynist Christian, who considers sex a sin in every permutation but their own, very narrow, conception of it. A concept in which the male decides when the female has sex. Always. I also think it's the result of having chosen to believe that God controls every event, and so even an event like rape must be determined to have been a righteous punishment from God, somehow. There can be no innocent victims in life when God is controlling everything that happens. Right? So somehow, the victims of rape must be found responsible for God's allowing the rapes to happen to them.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
I know this is bizarre, but this is what happens, I think, in the minds of the self-righteous misogynist Christian, who considers sex a sin in every permutation but their own, very narrow, conception of it. A concept in which the male decides when the female has sex. Always. I also think it's the result of having chosen to believe that God controls every event, and so even an event like rape must be determined to have been a righteous punishment from God, somehow. There can be no innocent victims in life when God is controlling everything that happens. Right? So somehow, the victims of rape must be found responsible for God's allowing the rapes to happen to them.

You nailed it.
 

Rusha

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Except that NO ONE DOES THAT. Because no one knows the actual risk but the perpetrator. And even he doesn't know what he'll do until he decides to do it.

IMO, this is more about who the perpetrators and victims are and less about the crime.

Because the victims of rape are normally women being preyed on by males (can't use the word men), there are those that have to find a way to excuse the actions of these predators.

They blame everything and everyone except for the ... the person committing the violation.

Hence the word "deserves".
 

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
They blame everything and everyone except for the ... the person committing the violation.

And you blame everything and everyone except for ... the person with an XX chromosome so.. :rolleyes:

Sitting here having this discussion for three straight months and men have yet to be rightfully defended for the absurdities women put on them. It's ironic that any of you should get away with the statement you just put up.
 

Quetzal

New member
And you blame everything and everyone except for ... the person with an XX chromosome so.. :rolleyes:

Sitting here having this discussion for three straight months and men have yet to be rightfully defended for the absurdities women put on them. It's ironic that any of you should get away with the statement you just put up.
Nonsense. The only thing I have seen Rusha advocate for is for the sole blame of the crime to be placed on the criminal. I don't understand why this is contested.
 

Rusha

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Nonsense. The only thing I have seen Rusha advocate for is for the sole blame of the crime to be placed on the criminal. I don't understand why this is contested.

It's simple ... because the victims of rape are usually women and the predators are usually men.

For law enforcement to charge a slimy, perverted predator with rape is taking away a *perceived* power from men. The power to be the decision maker in all matters concerning sex.

For rapists, it is their weapon of hatred towards their target of hate: women. It helps to fill the void of their lack of power and control of other people.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
It's simple ... because the victims of rape are usually women and the predators are usually men.

For law enforcement to charge a slimy, perverted predator with rape is taking away a *perceived* power from men. The power to be the decision maker in all matters concerning sex.

For rapists, it is their weapon of hatred towards their target of hate: women.

it would be easier to educate women on how to avoid rape
than
to try change men
you should know that
 

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
Nonsense. The only thing I have seen Rusha advocate for is for the sole blame of the crime to be placed on the criminal. I don't understand why this is contested.

This whole thing started with the differences between people who see 'marital rape' as a crime next to murder and others who think that it's simply just bogus to make 'rapists' out of husbands.

It spiraled into madness, as with everything else when you have a bunch of haughty women pushing everyone's buttons with their nonsense- along with their male hostages who defend them.
Some people are incapable of having any sort of rational discussion because they, themselves, are irrational. I kept that exclusive to this specific subject but the more I look, the more I see that their attitude simply bleeds everywhere.
 

Rusha

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
it would be easier to educate women on how to avoid rape
than
to try change men
you should know that

What you really mean is that women should accept that men do not wish to change and should take on the responsibility that any reasonable and moral man accepts as his own ...

It's also easier for men to just drop their clothing in the middle of the floor. Picking up after them only endorses sloppy behavior.

Allowing them run out of clean socks, underwear and pants certainly sends a more proactive message. :)
 

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
What you really mean is that women should accept that men do not wish to change and should take on the responsibility that any reasonable and moral man accepts as his own ...

The whole 'teach men not to rape' agenda is not only misandrist and flat out degrading to men, but it is also outlandishly retarded.

If rape is so horrible, then one would do more about it besides sitting their being 'professional victims'.
That is, not getting out of the road with incoming traffic, expecting to not get hit and demonstrating some ridiculous victim complex when you do.

People are under this spell in which they honestly believe that misogyny is more common than misandry. It is not- misandry has become so standardized that anything else comes across as 'misogyny'. A male feminist is nothing more than a man suffering from Stockholm's syndrome.
 
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