Racism, Bigotry and Misogyny at TOL
- Thread starter annabenedetti
- Start date
Oops. Mea culpa! I remember reading her posting, seeing that she said that, but somewhere in between reading "not my husband" and me actually writing my answer, I somehow forgot about that part.
It was late and I read other postings in the thread in between reading hers and answering hers! :noid:
Nonetheless, my point stands: whatever the abuse may be, and whoever the abuser may be, I fully agree with Sitamun: chances are, the vast majority of the time, the abused person probably doesn't deserve it.
We can't reason, however, from "usually not" to "never."
Ultimately, that was my initial point. "Never" is a strong claim.
I'm willing to grant that a woman usually does not deserve a beating [at least, of course, not from their husbands, employers, etc.] But never? There are and has been a whole bunch of women. You really willing to tell me that not even one deserved to be beaten or killed? Out of the billions of women that have ever lived, not one deserved a beating or a killing?
It's not like rape; rape in and of itself implies injustice. It's pretty much always unjust to rape someone.
But to beat someone? To kill someone? That's a different story.
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annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
think: God's punishment in Isaiah
Sitamun said:
I may have misread this as meaning "employer."
:noid:
Whatever Sitamun is describing, I fully admit that she probably doesn't deserve it.
It depends on how you understand rape. If you understand rape in such a way that it involves injustice in its very notion or description, then rape is intrinsically evil and never permissible.
I'm unfamiliar with this. What are you talking about?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
| Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. 10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. 11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. 12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. 13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. 14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land. 15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. 16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. |
Oh, ok.
I don't think that the verse in question is saying that rape is just in those cases, at least, with respect to the rapist. Consider the case of King David. Yes, the things he suffered was a "just" penalty for him to suffer what he did. Nonetheless, the persons who "carried out" that penalty still acted unjustly in so doing and were utterly worthless people.
I don't think that the verse in question is saying that rape is just in those cases, at least, with respect to the rapist. Consider the case of King David. Yes, the things he suffered was a "just" penalty for him to suffer what he did. Nonetheless, the persons who "carried out" that penalty still acted unjustly in so doing and were utterly worthless people.
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
How do you understand rape?
Everything that happens is according to God's will either a. by direct ordinance or b. by permission. Even our sins are foreknown and permitted to happen by God.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
i started down this path yesterday with tam, but she was more interested in playing the fool than discussing it
like to come back to it with you, but later - got schoolwork to do
Sure it is.
Earn - 1.
to gain or get in return for one's labor (labor/actions)
also
3.
to acquire through merit
Merit - to procure, receive, obtain.
neither word, always means a positive, we can earn and merit negative consequences to our own decisions and actions.
Expectation of an event based on ones own actions or lack of action and decisions doesn't in any way affect that there are consequences for actions both good and bad.
I don't. That's not my field of interest.
I could rattle out one or more definitions, but I wouldn't swear by them.
For example, I could tell you: "Taking a woman against her will, i.e., by force."
Or I could tell you: "Taking a woman who does not belong to oneself against her will, i.e., by force."
Here's what St. Thomas says:
St II-II said:
You should start a thread on it and link me to it when you do.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
if i do, i'll start it in etc - seems to be the only way to keep the kiddie-brigade out of serious discussions lately
WizardofOz
New member
Consequence, yes. If the consequence is not equitable to the action then it isn't earned. It's more cause and effect.
If a woman is raped while walking home alone she didn't earn the rape or choose to be rape. It's more a consequence of 'wrong place, wrong time'.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
the first definition says nothing about being equitable
con·se·quence
ˈkänsikwəns/
noun
noun: consequence; plural noun: consequences
1.
a result or effect of an action or condition.
I dont think you understand what consequence means.
For something to have an effect, it doesnt have to have a commensurate effect, just an effect.
Example: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
if we were talking about anything other than rape, he'd understand
they all would
fascinating, isn't it?