ECT R.C. Sproul: Dispensationalism Brought Us The ‘Carnal Christian'.

[DAN P]

Sproul is only pointing out the inevitable danger of removing the law completely. He's approaching it from a covenant theology perspective.

Hi and the LAW of Moses was taken away as 2 Cor 3:13-15 says , no matter what Sproul believes !!

dan p

 

[andyc]

Obviously, the following is not clear to you.

Which IS a Dispensational issue.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

That right there is speaking of two systems that DIFFER from one another: Law and Grace.

It is obvious from passages that one is based on that under the Law sin had dominion over one.

That to look to the Law in an attempt to stop sin can only result in sin's dominion over one.

Some passages that one is based on are passages like the following...

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The Law had been meant to set off "sin, that it might appear sin..."

What you are doing is attempting to solve for a problem only you are perceiving - because your study approach, when attempting to properly understand these issues, is off.

These issues are not understood by watching theologians sitting arounding attempting to impress one another with how "books based" "spiritual Israel" smart they all supposedly are.

Rather, they are solved by getting in, and staying in the Scripture, until It yields IT's Answers.

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Case in point - what the Scripture itself says on these things...

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

You are not rightly dividing the Scripture as to the things that differ between these things...

1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Result?

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Solution, then; if the Law is not the answer?

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

THAT IS what Romans 6 thru 8 ARE based on - NOT on the Law.

For, no, we are not left without A law.

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

What then?

Our teacher is NOW Grace itself.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

The Grace of God toward us in His Son is BOTH our teacher AND our motivator now.

As we focus on "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

In short, as we focus on Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

In other words - in memory of Him - of His Grace toward us - what He did on that Croos - in each our stead - as we do that it results in a zealousness for good works.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Thus, when you find Believers talking about the Grace of God this, and the Grace of God that, whose grace towards others is anything but - that is not a result of what such as Sproul and his kind are ever ignorantly going on about.

It is instead, the result of a Believer who either does not understand the above, or has rationalized their own desires over the above perspective for so long, that they are no longer reachable as to the above.

In memory of Romans 5: 6-8, Andy - in each our stead.

None of this is relevant to the thread topic. We're talking about the use of the moral law to accuse the sinner.

 

[andyc]

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/zeal-without-knowledge/


https://www.ligonier.org/blog/undervaluing-pentecost/

Check.

And RC would tell you, fruitcake candyandycain, an emotional wreck, that you are not one of "the elect," so you cannot understand scripture anyways.


Checkmate.


EOT. RIP. DOA. CLOSED.

Of course. People like Sproul and MacArthur would have little time for Pentecostals like me, but they are still exceptional ministers.
I have massive respect for the Dave Hunts, RC Sprouls, Robert Bowmans and John MacArthurs of this world.

I particularly liked Robert Bowman's book tackling word faith, and even tried to speak with him about it, but he didn't respond.

 

[andyc]

Hi and the LAW of Moses was taken away as 2 Cor 3:13-15 says , no matter what Sproul believes !!

dan p

Morality didn't begin at mount Sinai, did it?
Israel dwelt in Canaan's Land because the Canannites did what?

 

[DAN P]

Morality didn't begin at mount Sinai, did it?
Israel dwelt in Canaan's Land because the Canannites did what?

Hi and will not reply to 2 Cor 3:13-15 ??

So when did MORALITY begin , IN Rom 5:14 ?

Where is morality in Rom 5:14 and how were they saved ??

dan p

 

[andyc]

Hi and will not reply to 2 Cor 3:13-15 ??

What on earth are you talking about?

The Mosaic law reveals the glory of God in a way that is unobtainable by human effort. It was fading away because it's been replaced by a covenant where we receive it as a gift by faith.

So when did MORALITY begin , IN Rom 5:14 ?

Are you serious?

Are madists this dumb?

I'm tempted to say yes.

Where is morality in Rom 5:14 and how were they saved ??

Forget Romans, or anything in the new testament.
Why were the Canaanites outed? Come on, answer!

 

[Danoh]

None of this is relevant to the thread topic. We're talking about the use of the moral law to accuse the sinner.

The Law plays a vital role in proving the lost person just that - lost.

And my post implied that, as well.

Here is some more...

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Verses 10 and 11 there, are right out of the Law and the Prophets.

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Acts 17: 11, 12.

 

[andyc]

The Law plays a vital role in proving the lost person just that - lost.

Now we're getting somewhere with you.

And my post implied that, as well.

Didn't see that.

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Those last two passages are right out of the Law and the Prophets.

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Acts 17: 11, 12.

See what I have made bold. The question in this instance is, what accuses the gentile?
Do you see that the moral law is in actual fact in the conscience?
You can never get rid of the moral law, only the legal jurisdiction of what failure meant under the old covenant.

 

[DAN P]

What on earth are you talking about?

The Mosaic law reveals the glory of God in a way that is unobtainable by human effort. It was fading away because it's been replaced by a covenant where we receive it as a gift by faith.



Are you serious?

A madists this dumb?

I'm tempted to say yes.



Forget Romans, or anything in the new testament.
Why were the Canaanites outed? Come on, answer!

Hi and you can not answer what Rom 5:14 means ??

There was no Law there so how were sinners saved , by MORALITY ??

In Judges 17:6 , where there is no KING , man did what was right in his own eyes !!

Read Deut 7:1-6 and learn about the Canaanites !!

The DUMB ones never can answer , can you ?

dan p

 

[andyc]

Hi and you can not answer what Rom 5:14 means ??

So you're going to ignore the thread direction because you want your little hobbyhorse question tackled?

Death reigned because Adam's unrighteous act had made every one of his physical offspring unrighteous, who is an anti type of Christ who makes every one of his spiritual offspring righteous because of his righteous act.

There was no Law there so how were sinners saved , by MORALITY ??

There was no Mosaic law, but there was a moral law in the conscience, and it is this where those people shall be judged.
How do people do by very nature those things written in the law? The answer to this will be very interesting from you.

In Judges 17:6 , where there is no KING , man did what was right in his own eyes !!

Which was?

The DUMB ones never can answer , can you ?

See above.

 

[Danoh]

Now we're getting somewhere with you.



Didn't see that.



See what I have made bold. The question in this instance is, what accuses the gentile?
Do you see that the moral law is in actual fact in the conscience?
You can never get rid of the moral law, only the legal jurisdiction of what failure meant under the old covenant.

Law only makes obvious what is there inherent in man whether or not he is aware of it - that he is kin to Adam.

And Law is only God's means of more than fair play on His part.

Of showing man why He is condemned.

Instead of just doing away with him.

And Law is a means of a contrast between man in his doom, and tht hope that is the Cross.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Some incompetent recently asked me when was I ever under the Law.

I didn't even bother with much of an answer.

Why bother? Nobody home.

For it is clear from the Law and the Prophets that Gentiles were not only concluded under sin in those writings, but also not only proven under sin by said writings, but through Israel's own failure under the Law.

Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

The Law instructed the Jew in who he was to be like: holy like the God of Israel.

But it also instructed him in who he was not to be like: the Gentiles.

"Not so Lord" had exclaimed Peter "For I have never eaten any unclean thing."

The Jew also proving in the end, however, what the Law had set out to prove; that the Jew was no better (which was why that diet was changed once more, by the way).

But anyway, the Jew - proven no better than the Gentile.

Romans 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

The long since before concluded under sin Gentile's response to all that?

2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Acts 17: 11, 12

 

[andyc]

Law only makes obvious what is there inherent in man whether or not he is aware of it - that he is kin to Adam.

I would have said that the contrast is more in view than who fallen man can most identify with. The law asks the question to the sincere seeker of God, how can such a pure divine being still persevere with such junk? Yes?

Let's step into Moses shoes for a moment. He's just seen the glory of God in the law, and compared it to the wretchedness of man. What does he say to God? "Show me your glory".
In other words he's saying, "the law reveals a person who's ridiculously on another level to us, and yet this person is somehow willing to persevere with us? I want to see the person who is behind this crazy insane unobtainable righteousness."

God responds, "you can't, but I'll show you my back".

And Law is only God's means of more than fair play on His part.

Of showing man why He is condemned.

Instead of just doing away with him.

True.

And Law is a means of a contrast between man in his doom, and tht hope that is the Cross.

Yes! Contrast.

Now we're on the same page.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Some incompetent recently asked me when was I ever under the Law.

I didn't even bother with much of an answer.

Why bother? Nobody home.

For it is clear from the Law and the Prophets that Gentiles were not only concluded under sin in those writings, but also not only proven under sin by said writings, but through Israel's own failure under the Law.

Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

The Law instructed the Jew in who he was to be like: holy like the God of Israel.

But it also instructed him in who he was not to be like: the Gentiles.

"Not so Lord" had exclaimed Peter "For I have never eaten any unclean thing."

The Jew also proving in the end, however, what the Law had set out to prove; that the Jew was no better (which was why that diet was changed once more, by the way).

But anyway, the Jew - proven no better than the Gentile.

Because no physical being can feel privileged compared to God. Yes?
Both are sold under sin in Adam. The only difference is that the Jew should have a greater comprehension of it than the gentile, because the law ruthlessly reveals all of the shortfalls.

Romans 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

The long since before concluded under sin Gentile's response to all that?

2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Acts 17: 11, 12

Right.
We're close on this, which is why your first posts confuse me.

 

[DAN P]

So you're going to ignore the thread direction because you want your little hobbyhorse question tackled?

Death reigned because Adam's unrighteous act had made every one of his physical offspring unrighteous, who is an anti type of Christ who makes every one of his spiritual offspring righteous because of his righteous act.



There was no Mosaic law, but there was a moral law in the conscience, and it is this where those people shall be judged.
How do people do by very nature those things written in the law? The answer to this will be very interesting from you.




Which was?



See above.

Hi and this is what Rom 5:14 is saying , just for you !!

#1 , There is more than one gospel ?

#2 , Death reigned and the AORIST TENSE tells us that pointing to Adam !!

#3 This means that there never going to be FREE WILL ever again !!

#4 We know from the text and Gen 4:4 , that Abel and Cain new what was required of them concerning what God wanted them to do to please God !!

#5 The Gospel was for them to bring worship to God !!

#6 Abel brought a LAMB and was accepted !!

#7 But Cain brought the WORK of his HANDS and was not ACCEPTED , just as many do today by says the Water Baptism , and that REFUSE to call Jesus Lord as Rom 10:9 and 1 Cor 12:3 say is required , by the Holy Spirit !!

#8 Adam is a picture of the Old creation unto DEATH !!

#9 Cain is the PICTURE of the DYING WORKS PEOPLE !!

#10 Christ is the PATTERN of a NEW CREATION !!

dan p

 

[andyc]

Hi and this is what Rom 5:14 is saying , just for you !!

#1 , There is more than one gospel ?

#2 , Death reigned and the AORIST TENSE tells us that pointing to Adam !!

#3 This means that there never going to be FREE WILL ever again !!

#4 We know from the text and Gen 4:4 , that Abel and Cain new what was required of them concerning what God wanted them to do to please God !!

#5 The Gospel was for them to bring worship to God !!

#6 Abel brought a LAMB and was accepted !!

#7 But Cain brought the WORK of his HANDS and was not ACCEPTED , just as many do today by says the Water Baptism , and that REFUSE to call Jesus Lord as Rom 10:9 and 1 Cor 12:3 say is required , by the Holy Spirit !!

#8 Adam is a picture of the Old creation unto DEATH !!

#9 Cain is the PICTURE of the DYING WORKS PEOPLE !!

#10 Christ is the PATTERN of a NEW CREATION !!

dan p

None of this is relevant to the thread topic, and no there are not two gospels. There never has been.
Christ is the prototype of the heavenly man, but the goal from the moment Adam sinned was to seek God's kingdom.
Progressive revelation has brought us to the understanding of how it is possible to enter the kingdom of God, but what you madists won't have is, that the message has always been about entering the kingdom of God. The moment Christ was born, the kingdom of God had come to man. And so if we now embrace him, we enter the kingdom of God.

Mad inserts the idea of different gospels dependant on different dispensations, to fabricate a gospel where people can do as they please under the banner of perverted grace. Nope, there not different gospels, only one. Entering the kingdom of God is the objective of man since Adam, and it still is the same objective, but now after progressive revelations the way is fully known.

 

[DAN P]

None of this is relevant to the thread topic, and no there are not two gospels. There never has been.
Christ is the prototype of the heavenly man, but the goal from the moment Adam sinned was to seek God's kingdom.
Progressive revelation has brought us to the understanding of how it is possible to enter the kingdom of God, but what you madists won't have is, that the message has always been about entering the kingdom of God. The moment Christ was born, the kingdom of God had come to man. And so if we now embrace him, we enter the kingdom of God.

Mad inserts the idea of different gospels dependant on different dispensations, to fabricate a gospel where people can do as they please under the banner of perverted grace. Nope, there not different gospels, only one. Entering the kingdom of God is the objective of man since Adam, and it still is the same objective, but now after progressive revelations the way is fully known.

Hi and I say that there are at least 5 gospels that bring good NEWS !!

And some gospels bring BAD NEWS !!

Tell me with a verse where your ONE GOSPEL is found ??

dan p

 

[Danoh]

...

Mad inserts the idea of different gospels dependant on different dispensations, to fabricate a gospel where people can do as they please under the banner of perverted grace. Nope, there not different gospels, only one. Entering the kingdom of God is the objective of man since Adam, and it still is the same objective, but now after progressive revelations the way is fully known.

Sorry, but that is just complete ignorance on your part...as usual.

There are now basically three versions of Mid-Acts out there.

One of those two dying out, as its remaining adherents are from a prior generation.

Many of them were still alive when I first found out there were people out there who held views similar to my own.

I got to see many of them during their dealings with the opposition, first hand, as part of my profession back came with a great deal of travel to different parts of the U.S. and so on.

But for three or four here and there, they were largely some of the most grace living and giving, patient and forgiving people one could ever have been fortunate to have known.

Just wonderfully Godly people in the Lord you are spitting on the memory of.

The same is true of various within the two other versions of Mid-Acts.

You have arrived at your false-positive from your same old ignorance, Andy.

Neither the gracelessnes and ever glorying and rationalizing in the glorying in the flesh of a few bad apples here and there, nor do their skewed views, does the whole of actual Mid-Acts make.

Clearly, you did not go through those video studies I posted to you; though here you are, posting a video on this thread as your OP, desiring that others at least hear it out.

Every one of the video studies I posted to you on this thread are not only from the Acts 9 Position (aka MAD or Mid-Acts Dispensationalism) I hold to more or less; but are based on Paul's very questions in...

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Quit lying about MADs. That is unbecoming of ANY professed "Believer."

Yours is ever obviously as much your ignorance on the whole of a thing, as your equally obvious need for payback of fools on their same level.

Romans 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

2 Corinthians 8:21 Providing for honest things, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men.

Better you begin to look at both personal and doctrinal issues from the lens that is Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

Believe me, you'll then be a bit more...objective.

 

[andyc]

Sorry, but that is just complete ignorance on your part...as usual.

There are now basically three versions of Mid-Acts out there.

One of those two dying out, as its remaining adherents are from a prior generation.

Many of them were still alive when I first found out there were people out there who held views similar to my own.

I got to see many of them during their dealings with the opposition, first hand, as part of my profession back came with a great deal of travel to different parts of the U.S. and so on.

But for three or four here and there, they were largely some of the most grace living and giving, patient and forgiving people one could ever have been fortunate to have known.

Just wonderfully Godly people in the Lord you are spitting on the memory of.

The same is true of various within the two other versions of Mid-Acts.

You have arrived at your false-positive from your same old ignorance, Andy.

Neither the gracelessnes and ever glorying and rationalizing in the glorying in the flesh of a few bad apples here and there, nor do their skewed views, does the whole of actual Mid-Acts make.

Clearly, you did not go through those video studies I posted to you; though here you are, posting a video on this thread as your OP, desiring that others at least hear it out.

Every one of the video studies I posted to you on this thread are not only from the Acts 9 Position (aka MAD or Mid-Acts Dispensationalism) I hold to more or less; but are based on Paul's very questions in...

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Quit lying about MADs. That is unbecoming of ANY professed "Believer."

Yours is ever obviously as much your ignorance on the whole of a thing, as your equally obvious need for payback of fools on their same level.

Romans 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

2 Corinthians 8:21 Providing for honest things, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men.

Better you begin to look at both personal and doctrinal issues from the lens that is Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

Believe me, you'll then be a bit more...objective.

You're quite new here, but I posted some quotes from madists here years ago. Enjoy!

Voltaire

Andyc asks, doesnt faith in Christ include turning from sin. I say no.

No need to turn from sin?


Voltaire

Andyc. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. Based on that verse, are you claiming its impossible to get saved if you have no desire to be holy?

STP

Those who claim that "turning from sin" is a part of having faith in Christ are still sinning every single day. They haven't "turned from sin".

So, turning from sin is not necessary?

Lighthouse

He repents me of my sin, and changes my mind. These are not things I can do on my own. None of us can.

When we're sinning, God changes our mind and stops us from sinning?
What if we don't want to stop sinning and change our mind?
That's ok as well?

Voltaire

Ok andyc, so if someone knows that fornication is a sin and they want to be saved but dont want to stop fornicating with their live in girlfriend, God will not save him? The price that Christ paid on calvary was not sufficient to save someone who refuses to give up one sin?

The fact that Paul tells us not to keep company with anyone called a brother, and who is a fornicator, this doesn't seem to matter?
Jesus doesn't mind fornication, it's not that bad?

JohnW

he (andyc) perverts the gospel of Christ, conditioning justification upon his subjective "desire" to "turn from sin"

Turning from sin is not a condition for salvation?


JohnW

No "fixin' up, committing your life...surrendering your life...exhibiting a subjective, emotional, genuine, sincere desire for change....turning from sin....stop committing sin.......blah blah blah"=

No need to desire to turn from sin?

Voltaire

According to andy, you must desire to be free from sin in order to be saved and if you continue to sin willfully and unashamedly after justification, it is proof that you never had a genuine desire to be free from sin.

You do not have to desire to be free from sin?
And you can go on and sin willfully and unashamedly after you're saved, because it doesn't matter?

andyc

'If they are committing grievous sins, and feel no sense of shame in it, then they are not saved. They are only kiding themselves."-andyc

JohnW
Responce:

Vol, Stp, myself, chickenman....have the righteousness of God in Christ. Our sin was imputed to the Lord Jesus Christ 2000 years ago, and He wasjudged in our stead, and all our sins were imputed to Him also, and the debt was paid. There is no sin/sins issue between a holy LORD God and us.

God doesn't care about sin anymore, because it was all taken care of 2000 years ago?

Voltaire

There is something going on with andy and vladkhab. They seem to be very concerned that someone could trust in Christ and go on living exactly like they did before.

Sinners can go on living exactly as they did before they were saved?

andyc:

"When you're agreeing with what Christ did for you, and you're understanding the rottenness of your condition, and you're asking for forgiveness and cleansing, and desire to receive the Holy Spirit to be a child of God, this is the only commitment required by God in order to receive salvation. You can't be in this frame of mind unless you desire to be forgiven. This is a repentant frame of mind."-andyc

JohnW
Response:

More spin, and subjectivity, and focusing on you. . I refuse to ask God to do something He already took
care of 2000 years ago.

You don't even have to have a desire to be forgiven, or even be in a repentant frame of mind?

Voltaire

God asks godrulz why he should let him into heaven. Godrulz tells him that he accepted the free gift of his son. God says to him but would i have let you in here if you still wanted to run your own life. Godrulz tells him of course not. Your gift is not free in an absolute sense. I cant accept your free gift and live like i want to. In fact God, i wik be very angry at you if i come here and find some folks who did not stolivg for self. After all, i had to give up the good life in order to get here. And now i am disgusted to get here and find some people who had their cake and ate it too.

There will be people in heaven who will be angry to learn that they could have had Christ and the world?


JohnW

Take your self righteous," genuinely... sincerely...desire..." "commitment" and stuff it. The LORD God needs nothing from you, will not justify you based upon your "intentions", your "commitment" your "sincerity", your "genuineness",

Would Jesus tell us to stuff our commitment, and our sincere genuine desire to turn from sin?

Chickenman

Well...Peter taught that one had to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins, and then he would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. So in that sense, it was a kingdom requirement. We are baptized by the Spirit into Christ when we believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose to life. The gospel message to us doesn't include a REQUIREMENT to repent. However, repentance certainly has a place in Body doctrine. What a sad fool who wouldn't respond to the gift he's received by repenting of sin.

 

[Danoh]

How Can I Live A Victorious Christian Life?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-uNINDZukU&app=desktop

THE NEW YOU!! - Now This is Really Living!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=018l90DJ6rI&app=desktop

Shall We Continue In Sin That Grace May Abound?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IM8KmnXAhY&app=desktop

Why Do I Fail If There Is Victory In Christ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZhiZGjjm7Y&app=desktop

Rom. 5:6-8 towards ya, Andy - no matter how many times you ignore your having ignored these video studies on this very issue.

You wanna comment to me - on - this - very - issue?

Well then comment to me on the content of any one of those video studies - on - this - very - issue.

:doh:

 

[andyc]

How Can I Live A Victorious Christian Life?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-uNINDZukU&app=desktop

THE NEW YOU!! - Now This is Really Living!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=018l90DJ6rI&app=desktop

Shall We Continue In Sin That Grace May Abound?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IM8KmnXAhY&app=desktop

Why Do I Fail If There Is Victory In Christ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZhiZGjjm7Y&app=desktop

Rom. 5:6-8 towards ya, Andy - no matter how many times you ignore your having ignored these video studies on this very issue.

You wanna comment to me - on - this - very - issue?

Well then comment to me on the content of any one of those video studies - on - this - very - issue.

:doh:

Don't be silly.
I posted one video, and pointed to the specific time to pay attention, which was a few minutes.
You really think I'm going to sit and watch that lot? :doh:

Start a thread on whatever you want to discuss.

 

[Danoh]

Don't be silly.
I posted one video, and pointed to the specific time to pay attention, which was a few minutes.
You really think I'm going to sit and watch that lot? :doh:

Start a thread on whatever you want to discuss.

Geez you can be one-sided and obtuse.

So be it.

You posted misrepresentations - to which I responded with more than ample evidence beyond a mere soundbyte, that showed that you haven't a clue what you are talking about

You come back with this absolute nonsense.

Your own thread proves you both an incompetent and a willful misrepresenter of other's views, once more.

I know I was more than fair with you.

I leave you to your wilful self-deception til you are willing to be honest.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Rom. 5: 6-8.