Quick question...

[JPHamilton]

I am a young minister and I have been called on to preach at an upcoming meeting. However, I am struggling to make a decision on a portion of text that I will be covering. My earnest desire to rightly divide the word and to always preach it in context. However, again, there is a certain scenario that I'm wrestling with.

In your opinion, would I be contextually accurate if I suggested that when Jesus spoke to Paul on the road to Damascus and said, "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?" that He was alluding to the fact that Paul was persecuting His people, and thereby persecuting Him in that act?

Paul did not believe that Jesus was still alive, so he wasn't necessarily persecuting Jesus in the same way that someone would persecute the guy across the street that they hate.

I guess what I'm hinting at is that I want to use examples to demonstrate the principle that when we suffer, Jesus suffers with us. But I don't want to preach anything out of context.

Can someone help me with this?

 

[Jacob]

I would love to help. How can I help you?

Are you aware that Jesus did die, and that He was raised from the dead?

Romans 6:9 NASB - 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.

See also Acts 13 NASB and 1 Corinthians 15 NASB.

You may be correct in the question you are asking. Do you believe Paul had anything against Jesus?

I can also think about the body of Christ, the body of Messiah here. This is the church. I am not sure what to think here though. It was Jesus who was talking to Paul.

Have you read Matthew 25 NASB?

Here is some scripture from this chapter.

Matthew 25:31-46 KJV - 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Does any of this answer your question? Hopefully this gives you some things to think about. It may not answer the question.

 

[JPHamilton]

Yes, I obviously believe that Jesus died, rose from the dead, and is alive forevermore. However, the point that I'm making is that Paul did not believe that initially. So, when he was "persecuting" Christ, was he actually going after Christ himself? Or can it be said that he was persecuting Christ by persecuting the church. In other words, was Jesus saying something like "Hey Paul, you are persecuting my people; therefore, you are persecuting me", alluding to the fellowship that Jesus has with his people in suffering...?

 

[nikolai_42]

I guess what I'm hinting at is that I want to use examples to demonstrate the principle that when we suffer, Jesus suffers with us. But I don't want to preach anything out of context.

Can someone help me with this?

I'm not a preacher, but the first thing that comes to my mind in this context is Matthew 25. The critical verses are fairly well known...

Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Matthew 25:37-40

(And, of course, the flipside...)

Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Matthew 25:44-45

I would think that the suffering of Jesus is not so much in the physical sense, but more in the representative sense. That is - while it is quite true that "The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me." (Romans 15:3, Psalm 69:9) and Christ bore our sins, He sits at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us. He doesn't sacrifice all over again so He doesn't literally take on more wounds but is intimately identified with our suffering and ever liveth to make intercession for us (Hebrews 7:25 as well as the end of Hebrews 4 and beginning of Hebrews 5). So I would say that in our fellowship with Him, there is an identification to the extent that those who persecute them that belong to Jesus are persecuting Jesus. Remember what Jesus said of Himself and the Father :

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
John 14:6-11

Which calls to mind (for me) His high priestly prayer and what He petitioned regarding all believers :

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
John 17:20-23

There is something about identification that, in some sense, is closer than the physical body. So where I would say the caution would be - is to confuse spiritual identification with physical identity. And, if you read John 14, the disciples had a problem with that, too.

So does Jesus suffer when we do? I don't know that I would say that that is the point (even if He did - though I don't believe so). The point is that He identifies with us and we are to identify with Him and if we do, then He is able to carry us through what He already went through.

Maybe that skirts the real question too much...

 

[Jacob]

Yes, I obviously believe that Jesus died, rose from the dead, and is alive forevermore. However, the point that I'm making is that Paul did not believe that initially. So, when he was "persecuting" Christ, was he actually going after Christ himself? Or can it be said that he was persecuting Christ by persecuting the church. In other words, was Jesus saying something like "Hey Paul, you are persecuting my people; therefore, you are persecuting me", alluding to the fellowship that Jesus has with his people in suffering...?

Maybe. The suffering part is the part I don't know if it is true or not. It may be.

Do you know about the Spirit of God who dwells in believers by faith? What is Christ in you the hope of glory? How about that we are talking about King Jesus and His Kingdom? These are some different ideas.

Romans 8:9 NASB - 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Not one of us is Jesus Christ God's Son.

The word Messiah or Christ means Anointed.

Romans 8:9-10 NASB - 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Hebrews 10:23-31 NASB - 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; 24 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. 26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE." 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Here can be a study of wherever two or three have gathered together in my name there am I in their midst.

Deuteronomy 19:15 NASB - "A single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin which he has committed; on the evidence of two or three witnesses a matter shall be confirmed.

Matthew 18:16 NASB - "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.

Matthew 18:20 NASB - "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."

1 Corinthians 14:29 NASB - Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment.

2 Corinthians 13:1 NASB - This is the third time I am coming to you. EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES.

1 Timothy 5:19 NASB - Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses.

Hebrews 10:28 NASB - Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

Deuteronomy 17:6 NASB - "On the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death; he shall not be put to death on the evidence of one witness.

1 Corinthians 14:27 NASB - If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret;

May God give you wisdom in understanding all these things rightly, and may you not be confused. May that which is true be clear to you, and may you discard the rest. These things you may want to think on or think about.

I actually don't know what you mean by the fellowship that Jesus has with his people in suffering.

 

[JPHamilton]

Thanks for this!

I did not mean to imply that Jesus physically suffers with us in the sense that He feels pain when we are poked or feels the ache of a broken arm. I meant that we are not alone in our suffering because He is intimately aware of every struggle we face, and that we have fellowship with Him in that sense.

The text that I am going to be dealing with on Sunday is Philippians 3:10. I think Paul has what I wrote above in mind when he mentions the "fellowship of his sufferings." What do you think?

 

[Tattooed Theist]

Yes, I obviously believe that Jesus died, rose from the dead, and is alive forevermore. However, the point that I'm making is that Paul did not believe that initially. So, when he was "persecuting" Christ, was he actually going after Christ himself? Or can it be said that he was persecuting Christ by persecuting the church. In other words, was Jesus saying something like "Hey Paul, you are persecuting my people; therefore, you are persecuting me", alluding to the fellowship that Jesus has with his people in suffering...?

Nailed it.

Did Jesus not say, "What you do to the least of these, you do to me?" (Paraphrased)

 

[Jacob]

Philippians 3:1-21 NASB - 1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things again is no trouble to me, and it is a safeguard for you. 2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; 3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, 4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless. 7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; 16 however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained. 17 Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us. 18 For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things. 20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

Here are some other scriptures.

2 Timothy 3:12 NASB - 12 Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

Luke 9:23 NASB - 23 And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

Acts 1:3 NASB - To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

2 Thessalonians 1:5 NASB - This is a plain indication of God's righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering.

2 Timothy 1:8 NASB - Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God,

Hebrews 2:9 NASB - But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

James 5:13 NASB - Is anyone among you suffering? Then he must pray. Is anyone cheerful? He is to sing praises.

1 Peter 2:19 NASB - For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly.

1 Peter 2:23 NASB - and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;

1 Peter 5:9 NASB - But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world.

See also 1 Corinthians 15 NASB which talks about resurrection. However, this may not follow with what we are saying.

Romans 6:5 NASB - For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

Philippians 3:7-21 NASB - 7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; 16 however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained. 17 Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us. 18 For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things. 20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

 

[nikolai_42]

Thanks for this!

I did not mean to imply that Jesus physically suffers with us in the sense that He feels pain when we are poked or feels the ache of a broken arm. I meant that we are not alone in our suffering because He is intimately aware of every struggle we face, and that we have fellowship with Him in that sense.

The text that I am going to be dealing with on Sunday is Philippians 3:10. I think Paul has what I wrote above in mind when he mentions the "fellowship of his sufferings." What do you think?

As the issue clarifies in my mind, the thought comes to me that I don't ever remember the scriptures talk about Jesus suffering with us - rather we suffer with Him (if we are His) :

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Romans 8:16-17

Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.
2 Corinthians 1:3-7

That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Philippians 3:10

Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
I Peter 4:12-14

The matter is fundamental and I think goes beyond our consciousness of who or what we are resisting. The Jews (Pharisees, especially) did always resist the Holy Spirit. But do you think they were cognizant of that and still willfully resisted God? They couldn't - there's no way they consciously said to themselves "I'm resisting God". What was manifested was their spiritual stance towards God. Likewise, Paul. He persecuted the church ruthlessly - but when Christ was revealed in him, all that changed. He was born of God and loved the people of God. The contrast is as old as mankind :

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Galatians 4:28-29

Cain and Abel is another example. Spiritual identification is not something that is chosen by man's will - but who we are determines what we do. And if we persecute God's people, it shows clearly that we are not of God. That is why Satan goes after God's people - because they are united with Him and they share in the sufferings of Christ. So when the church is persecuted, it is the church sharing in Christ's sufferings. So if we are His, we share His sufferings which come because we evidence His life in us. Thus, if we are suffering for doing good, Christ is certainly with us in that - but it is first of all His suffering, not our own.

Again...that may not get to the heart of your question, but I think seeing suffering as His sufferings (not ours) changes the understanding of the matter some, and makes the question of whether He suffers when we suffer almost nonsensical. Not that the question isn't good - it's great - but it carries some presuppositions and a certain perspective with it that make a difference in how we understand suffering generally.

But again...I'm not a preacher so take it for what you will.

 

[JPHamilton]

No, that's great. I think we're getting somewhere. This is helping me make sure that I don't use language that may be misunderstood.

I agree that we suffer with Him in the sense that we are active participants in a conflict that we enter into when we become members of the body of Christ. We strive against sin, false doctrine, physical persecution, etc. However, we are the ones who are actually doing the suffering. Paul, for example, suffered through beatings, imprisonment, etc. We can say that those are the sufferings of Christ. I believe that. However, I think that the fellowship (partnership) aspect comes into play when we consider the fact that we are actually living out the times of suffering in the flesh. We are suffering in His stead as His ambassadors. And in that suffering, we have fellowship (partnership) with Jesus because He sympathizes with our struggles, having formerly experienced what we are facing as human beings.

Do you think that understanding of Philippians 3:10 is faithful to the text? When I read Philippians, I see a man who knew life wasn't easy. He understood that things don't always go the way we hope they will. But in the midst of it all, we have this fellowship with Christ that makes it all worth it. Joy in the midst of hardship.

 

[Jacob]

No, that's great. I think we're getting somewhere. This is helping me make sure that I don't use language that may be misunderstood.

I agree that we suffer with Him in the sense that we are active participants in a conflict that we enter into when we become members of the body of Christ. We strive against sin, false doctrine, physical persecution, etc. However, we are the ones who are actually doing the suffering. Paul, for example, suffered through beatings, imprisonment, etc. We can say that those are the sufferings of Christ. I believe that. However, I think that the fellowship (partnership) aspect comes into play when we consider the fact that we are actually living out the times of suffering in the flesh. We are suffering in His stead as His ambassadors. And in that suffering, we have fellowship (partnership) with Jesus because He sympathizes with our struggles, having formerly experienced what we are facing as human beings.

Do you think that understanding of Philippians 3:10 is faithful to the text? When I read Philippians, I see a man who knew life wasn't easy. He understood that things don't always go the way we hope they will. But in the midst of it all, we have this fellowship with Christ that makes it all worth it. Joy in the midst of hardship.

I am not sure who you are asking at this point. But, or however, I will post a post soon, that I am already working on.

 

[JPHamilton]

What I'm getting at is that the fellowship we experience in suffering enables us to know Jesus in a more intimate way. In other words, we don't truly know God as a healer until He heals us. We don't know Him as a shield until He has protected us from something. Through the things we suffer for His sake and for the sake of being a member of the body, we come to KNOW things about God that we would otherwise only KNOW ABOUT Him.

 

[Jacob]

You may be interested in the following from today's The Narrow Path radio broadcast.

The Narrow Path. Start at or before 5:01.

 

[Hawkins]

1 Corinthians 12:26-27 (NIV2011)
26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

1 Corinthians 12:26-27 (NIV2011)
26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.


The true incorruptible church is Christ's body, which is the temple He built in 3 days.

If one part of it suffers, every part suffers as well. I think that's how Christ was persecuted by Saul.

 

[nikolai_42]

No, that's great. I think we're getting somewhere. This is helping me make sure that I don't use language that may be misunderstood.

I agree that we suffer with Him in the sense that we are active participants in a conflict that we enter into when we become members of the body of Christ. We strive against sin, false doctrine, physical persecution, etc. However, we are the ones who are actually doing the suffering. Paul, for example, suffered through beatings, imprisonment, etc. We can say that those are the sufferings of Christ. I believe that. However, I think that the fellowship (partnership) aspect comes into play when we consider the fact that we are actually living out the times of suffering in the flesh. We are suffering in His stead as His ambassadors. And in that suffering, we have fellowship (partnership) with Jesus because He sympathizes with our struggles, having formerly experienced what we are facing as human beings.

Do you think that understanding of Philippians 3:10 is faithful to the text? When I read Philippians, I see a man who knew life wasn't easy. He understood that things don't always go the way we hope they will. But in the midst of it all, we have this fellowship with Christ that makes it all worth it. Joy in the midst of hardship.

I have a nuanced view of suffering, but in the main I would agree with you. He intercedes for us and gives us strength to persevere. But even beyond that, I think there is something more than just "I can endure this because there's so much more beyond". You look at Job who suffered greatly because God directed Satan to him. He stood out as righteous and endured suffering without denying God. But in the midst of it, there was something he had to work through - he cursed everything but God (even his own birth!). So there wasn't that embracing of it that we see in the apostles.

And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Romans 5:3-5

Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.
2 Corinthians 7:4

It wasn't in spite of tribulation, but because of tribulation that Paul was happy. He didn't care about the tribulation itself, but recognized God's hand in it all. And that can ONLY be done if one is born of God and walking closely with Him. The Spirit of God enables that. So those troubles aren't viewed as much a necessary evil as they are an integral part of life in (and with) Christ. Again - that approach isn't possible without the mind of Christ. So, as I look at it, we are to understand suffering as part of life in Him - not as a separate part of life where we ask "Is Christ suffering with me?". And once again, I say that to try and convey the approach to suffering I see in scripture - not to belittle the question.

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
John 16:33

 

[Jacob]

I am not sure who you are asking at this point. But, or however, I will post a post soon, that I am already working on.

I was only working on getting the time for the broadcast where you should listen, which I have now posted. I realize it might appear different here, but honestly I don't know if you were asking me. Let me know if you were.

 

[Jacob]

1 Corinthians 12:26-27 (NIV2011)
26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.


The true incorruptible church is Christ's body, which is the temple He built in 3 days.

If one part of it suffers, every part suffers as well. I think that's how Christ was persecuted by Saul.

The scriptures here are good and relevant to what is being asked.

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

Would also point out believers, born of the Spirit, are the body of Christ, Romans 12:5. It is, in fact, that people are persecuted for the gospel of Jesus Christ, the cause of Christ the reason for the persecution, as He was persecuted, John 15:20, Matthew 5:10-12. It's even very natural that, if somebody were persecuting, hurting somebody you most loved, say of your family, in your loving empathy you would also feel persecuted, hurt. All loving people feel real sorrow, when sorrow comes to loved ones.

Perhaps most striking to consider is the truth that, if one is born of the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Christ, you literally have that life of Christ dwelling in you, very God dwelling in you. It can, therefore, be rightly said that persecuting somebody with the Spirit of Christ, literally living in them, that this is literally persecution of Christ. The attack is always on Christ in people, that Christ manifest to the unbelieving and Satanic world, of an evil spirit, the issue. It's always an attack on Christ.

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

By way of just a suggestion, if the subject were persecution, I'd never omit these verses of our Lord Jesus' teachings, and you could find others of the joy of persecution, like Paul and Silas singing praises to God in prison, Acts 16:25, but these verses, anyway:

Matthew 5

10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

It's the polar opposite of the way the world thinks, to be exceeding glad over persecutions? But it's right there, in these hugely important verses, a subject Paul spent some time on, also, his tribulations. What is hugely important? That persecution goes with genuine faith and salvation, as much as fruits of the Spirit. Relevant to the congregation, the one who is skating through life, getting along with the world, doesn't suffer persecution on some level, this is something to seriously examine, what it is about them the devils don't feel the need to bother with! Christ said we will suffer persecution, it's therefore a grave concern, if somebody claiming Christ does not seem to experience any ripples in the water. This very likely means there's not really any Christ in them to upset the apple cart, in the first place, therefore high time to examine how genuine their faith is, what the problem is they aren't shining that light of Christ that can, often enough, collide with the world. If you've truly met God, you're going to meet the devil, too, are going to need that whole armor of Ephesians 6. And if the persecuted are blessed, the opposite must be true, that those who aren't persecuted are not blessed.

Every good pastor knows there are the unsaved in the congregation. This is also why Bible teachings to congregations have warnings, not such that some errorneously speak to certain verses that people can lose salvation, rather the sermon always to the saved and unsaved, right there in the pews, the latter still in dire need of such warnings, to truly come to repentance and get right with the Lord, experience a living faith of the Spirit and stop playing church, playing footsie with the world, the flesh and the devil a whole Christ-less week, and throw God a sop on Sunday, by squirming in a pew for an hour. John 4:23, Matthew 10:38, James 4:4.

Persecution is a great subject to introduce those important nuances.