ECT Question for the Dispensationists

[Cross Reference]

It depends on the circumstances. Most of the time it is immediate. When God declares the new rules is when the new rules go into effect.

Can you cite and example?

Was that intended to be English?

I'm not trying to be rude, but I honestly don't comprehend the grammatical structure of this paragraph.

No worries. I had a hard time putting into words the Disciples were never taught or learned to ancipate any so-called dispensational change __ not even Paul.

Ephesians 1:10, 3:2 if you want specific verses. The context is in the surrounding verses. It is always in reference to the mystery.

Ah, yes, a mystery. Don't you know by now mysteries don't make good doctrine. Why run after one that goes nowhere for improving the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

 

[Stripe]

How 'bout I said it was stupid prideful way for responding to what YOU considered "nonsense"?

:dizzy:

You are speaking commentary, i.e., someone else's opinion, forcing it to say what it doesn't. __ How's that?

Not out.

Now, Speak to what Paul says about the "dispensation "of time" allotted him by the grace of God" that your crowd has built a doctrine around for untoward reasons?

I have no idea what you're talking about. :idunno:

 

[Lighthouse]

Can you cite and example?

The rules given to Adam and Eve in the garden were different than the rules given to them when they were banished from it.

No worries. I had a hard time putting into words the Disciples were never taught or learned to ancipate any so-called dispensational change __ not even Paul.

They knew well of the changes, beginning with the one I cited above. The rules also changed after the flood from what they were prior to it. And even more changes were made when the Law was commanded. However, in that instance many rules remained, such as circumcision and observance of the Sabbath.

Ah, yes, a mystery. Don't you know by now mysteries don't make good doctrine. Why run after one that goes nowhere for improving the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Paul used the word "mystery." What do you think he meant?

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicks...ersion=NKJV&searchtype=all&wholewordsonly=yes

 

[Cross Reference]

The rules given to Adam and Eve in the garden were different than the rules given to them when they were banished from it.

OK. What were the new rules Adam was to follow because of his transgression that were more that being instructions to be followed? New rules intimate new commands that if disobeyed warranted further penalties? There were no new commands, no new penalties. Even Cain didn't receive a command or a penalty that warranted immediate death..

They knew well of the changes, beginning with the one I cited above.

Sorry, I missed where you cited any new rule.

The rules also changed after the flood from what they were prior to it.

How so?? I don't see it. What were they that changed anything in the scheme of God?

And even more changes were made when the Law was commanded. However, in that instance many rules remained, such as circumcision and observance of the Sabbath.

So what was changed that a wrong heart toward God from man would be excused?

Paul used the word "mystery." What do you think he meant?

"Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: [i.e., sonship-fatherhood in God per 1 John 2] That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Ephesians 1:9-10 (KJV)

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:"

In this is nothing that says Paul is putting forth to them anymore than that which had already been in existance and had been since Adam. It was the revealing of God's Grace Paul was expalining they had been ignorant of..

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Intimacy with God made possible by the Cross of Jesus. Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; Ephesians 3:2-5 (KJV)

How could it be revealed absent the actual event taking place to be eplained?

 

[Cross Reference]

I have no idea what you're talking about. :idunno:

I have no doubt about that __ but it is not my problem.

 

[whitestone]

Has it been the purpose of the succeeding dispensation to make null and void the previous one, the one it succeeded?

I also thank you for referring to us as dispensation-ist,that is if a person was born in the 1st,2nd,3rd ect. disp. they by definition were/are disp. but there was no book of Acts at that time so they saw a different beginning and end in theirs.

As to the O.P. it seems you do not agree with a view of times so I would suggest sidestepping the asking of any of us and establish if there is scripture establishing the "sets of times".

I do not mean this "rude" as we know Jesus stated that they could not discern the "times" (Matthew 16:3 KJV) and (Luke 12:56 KJV). In (2 Peter 3:8 KJV) Peter states that to God a thousand years is as ONE day. In (Isaiah 46:10 KJV) God states that (from the beginning he told the end),,,so in the first 4 chapters of genesis is the first book(beginning) the second book begins in (Genesis 5:1 KJV) and gives it's name the name of the first book is in (Genesis 2:4 KJV) but it's important to note this is a prophecy i.e. 1st day,2nd,3rd,4th, the 5th ended when the 6th,dispensation of grace began,,this is today(Hebrews 3:13-15 KJV) and the 7th is the Millennium.

It may also help to side step the opinions of commentaries,personal opinions ect. and ask your own self if it is sound,I will give an example. I ask myself once if pre-mill. was taught to the early Church,fact is if we read what is referred to as the Apostalic fathers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_Fathers they were "Chillism/pre-Mill" But also saw the dispensations of times (see verse 3) http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103528.htm , although Irenaeus used the word "economy",same meaning he spoke Keltae (verse 3) http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103100.htm ,,,

I will stop for now what I wanted to say I did,that is I said that without using "Paul",because it has discomfort for one reason or the other but if one explores the path as to whether or no these sets of times are set forth by God then well Paul expands on the same subject.

 

[Cross Reference]

I also thank you for referring to us as dispensation-ist,that is if a person was born in the 1st,2nd,3rd ect. disp. they by definition were/are disp. but there was no book of Acts at that time so they saw a different beginning and end in theirs.

As to the O.P. it seems you do not agree with a view of times so I would suggest sidestepping the asking of any of us and establish if there is scripture establishing the "sets of times".

I have no idea what you are attempting to say. Are you for it or against? I can't tell. I find no scripture establishing set periods of times except as noted in the scriptures that definitey point to certain times when God moved in situations as in: "In the fullness of time, God sent His Son".

My understanding of "Sets of times" = fulfilled prophecies/periods of time associated with the fulfilling of the purposes of God for that season..

 

[whitestone]

I have no idea what you are attempting to say. Are you for it or against? I can't tell. I find no scripture establishing set periods of times except as noted in the scriptures that definitey point to certain times when God moved in situations as in: "In the fullness of time, God sent His Son".

My understanding of "Sets of times" = fulfilled prophecies/periods of time associated with the fulfilling of the purposes of God for that season..

If I'm for it or against it I suppose is as if you ask me If I am for or against Being born with red blood in us,the fact would still remain that we all are. Those who were born in The dispensation that began after the flood receded were in the disp.3rd day but Noah,his wife,Shem Ham and Japeth and there wives were born in the 2nd day/disp. and the flood put an end to the 2nd day of the generations of the heavens and the earth and the Ark kept them to the 3rd day(they survived the flood) and they died in the third day/3rd dip. of times.

Not many were given the gift of discerning times the sons of Issachar were given this (1 Chronicles 12:32 KJV),,,look at it like the gift of discerning dreams i.e.Danial. At the same time though see (Acts 1:7 KJV) because it was not given to all at the same time,then see (2 Peter 3:8 KJV) and Peter speaks of the days of time so by then he has received the gift of the times and the seasons. In (Revelations 1:19 KJV) John is told to write 3 things one is present tense,one is past the other future in the book you will find the end of one disp.,the disp. at present and the disp. of the millennial kingdom.

The just of it though is that I am a dispy,,your a dispy Adam is a dispy,Job is a dispy,Abraham is a dispy,those who will live in the next dispensation will be dispy's but we will all set our fingers down on different scriptures and say "it began here and ended there",,,

 

[musterion]

Oh. So you're a troll then. :troll:

Same as. He thinks the mob that came to arrest Christ fell backwards at His Word because they were merely surprised. Corner him on anything and you can expect no serious answers.

 

[Cross Reference]

Same as. He thinks the mob that came to arrest Christ fell backwards at His Word because they were merely surprised. Corner him on anything and you can expect no serious answers.

I have no answers for those who think they have cornered me. Big difference you aren't equipped to recognize.

They, like you, aren't worth the effort it takes to write a reply mostly because it would be only the beginning of going around in the same circle of your irrational thinking.

 

[whitestone]

If one narrowed it down,if one was offered the gift of healing the blind they would desire the gift of making one see. If one was offered the gifts of interpreting dreams,they would run head long for it. If one were offered to raise the dead they would find it of favor to be able accomplish it. How be it though the blind can be healed in helping those who cannot see in seeing the truth,the deaf can be restored to hearing and the dead can be raised from death in the foolishness of preaching,Yet again the gift of discerning the signs and the times,they are not desirable,,,

 

[patrick jane]

If one narrowed it down,if one was offered the gift of healing the blind they would desire the gift of making one see. If one was offered the gifts of interpreting dreams,they would run head long for it. If one were offered to raise the dead they would find it of favor to be able accomplish it. How be it though the blind can be healed in helping those who cannot see in seeing the truth,the deaf can be restored to hearing and the dead can be raised from death in the foolishness of preaching,Yet again the gift of discerning the signs and the times,they are not desirable,,,

Questions are a good thing. were you "offered" ? lay hands on someone and pray. Not necessary. Prayer works with NO motive, NO selfishness, NO public "display", In Jesus' Name. Amen ! ! ! I pray alone in silence, to each his own -

 

[Cross Reference]

Questions are a good thing. were you "offered" ? lay hands on someone and pray. Not necessary. Prayer works with NO motive, NO selfishness, NO public "display", In Jesus' Name. Amen ! ! ! I pray alone in silence, to each his own -

Praying alone in silence helps our unbelief more than anything. After all, we wouldn't want to be looked upon as being a fanatic by verbalizing our request before the Lord, would we? Of course not, and that individual will never enjoy heaven.

 

[Lighthouse]

OK. What were the new rules Adam was to follow because of his transgression that were more that being instructions to be followed? New rules intimate new commands that if disobeyed warranted further penalties? There were no new commands, no new penalties. Even Cain didn't receive a command or a penalty that warranted immediate death..

They had to work the ground in order to eat, which they did not have to do in Eden.

Sorry, I missed where you cited any new rule.

What relevance do the specific rules have in this particular conversation? We are simply discussing that rules change.

How so?? I don't see it. What were they that changed anything in the scheme of God?

Things they were allowed to eat.

So what was changed that a wrong heart toward God from man would be excused?

Did I imply any such change was made? What makes you think such a thing was ever excused?

"Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: [i.e., sonship-fatherhood in God per 1 John 2] That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Ephesians 1:9-10 (KJV)

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:"

In this is nothing that says Paul is putting forth to them anymore than that which had already been in existance and had been since Adam. It was the revealing of God's Grace Paul was expalining they had been ignorant of..

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Intimacy with God made possible by the Cross of Jesus. Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; Ephesians 3:2-5 (KJV)

How could it be revealed absent the actual event taking place to be eplained?

Do you seriously not understand what a mystery is?

 

[Cross Reference]

They had to work the ground in order to eat, which they did not have to do in Eden.

Hey, Dude, wake up!

That was a rules change.

!. Before __ Adam had to til the ground of food __ it wasn't tiresome or work. He could have performed it 24-7 x 365 x 100000000 ++

2, After __ Adam still had to til the ground for food but now it was tiresome work that would be a continual burden/struggle, etc., etc, and never end til he died.

One difference between 1 and 2 was the issue of gathering food without tiring. There was obviously [to me] more he would now have to concerned about for his well being that would now require his attention.
. . . . Get it now??!!

What relevance do the specific rules have in this particular conversation? We are simply discussing that rules change.

There were no rules change. There was a penalty however, he would now have to deal with. There was no new commands subject to penalties the one penalty being sufficient to cover all the bases. Do you understand??

Things they were allowed to eat.

Which intimates they were forbidden to eat certain things to which I ask ___ Like what????? What LAW, as in rules, was there they needed to follow, HUH??!!

Did I imply any such change was made? What makes you think such a thing was ever excused?

You are so screwed up I have lost track.

Do you seriously not understand what a mystery is?

I do understand you are an arrogant snot. That is what I understand.

You want to try again? If not, take a hike!

 

[DAN P]

Hi , and you are accepting the Scofield definition of OIKONOMIA and it means OIKO , which means HOUSE !

NOMOS means LAW and just check Vine's and see !!

It does include time for it's Implementaion from Paul's salvation to Hids death to 2 Tim 4:6 !!

I have been reading your OP , what do you personally know about Pauline Dispensationalism "

Are you preaching the Gospel of the Grace of God as Paul was given to preach , Eph 3:2 , and if not you are not in the faith as recorded in Rom 16:25 and 26 !!

dan p

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

[QUOTE=Cross Reference;4290045}

Hey, Dude, wake up!

[/QUOTE]

You're asking him to "wake up" while you're in a coma most
of the time?

 

[Lighthouse]

Hey, Dude, wake up!

That was a rules change.

Ya think?

Wasn't that the discussion? You asked me to pinpoint a rule change, so I did.

!. Before __ Adam had to til the ground of food __ it wasn't tiresome or work. He could have performed it 24-7 x 365 x 100000000 ++

2, After __ Adam still had to til the ground for food but now it was tiresome work that would be a continual burden/struggle, etc., etc, and never end til he died.

One difference between 1 and 2 was the issue of gathering food without tiring. There was obviously [to me] more he would now have to concerned about for his well being that would now require his attention.
. . . . Get it now??!!

If you think Adam had to work the ground to produce food before the Fall you're more ignorant than I thought.

Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:

“Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.​

Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”​

And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.

Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.
-Genesis 317-24

There were no rules change. There was a penalty however, he would now have to deal with. There was no new commands subject to penalties the one penalty being sufficient to cover all the bases. Do you understand??

:doh:

They were no longer allowed to eat of any tree in the Garden.

P.S.
Learn English.

Which intimates they were forbidden to eat certain things to which I ask ___ Like what????? What LAW, as in rules, was there they needed to follow, HUH??!!

Rules do not necessitate there be a law.

And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.”
-Genesis 1:29

“And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs.”
-Genesis 9:2-3

You are so screwed up I have lost track.

How am I screwed up? I never intimated that a wrong heart toward God would ever be excused.

I do understand you are an arrogant snot. That is what I understand.

You want to try again? If not, take a hike!

If I seem condescending it's because you are so ignorant my knowledge makes you feel inferior.

 

[Cross Reference]

Ya think?

Wasn't that the discussion? You asked me to pinpoint a rule change, so I did.

My Bad. It should have read "not a rules change". Trust I didn't cause you too much trouble.

I'll read you amended reply, should you offer one up.

 

[Lighthouse]

My Bad. It should have read "not a rules change". Trust I didn't cause you too much trouble.

I'll read you amended reply, should you offer one up.

How about we move on instead?

How was it not a change of rules?