Question for leftists

Rusha

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Those who do not murder will always be morally superior to those who do murder. The DP is not remotely similar to murder. Until the time comes when this person is put down, he will continue to be a threat to others.
 

The Horn

BANNED
Banned
This is one deranged guy who should be kept in an institute for the criminally insane for life . Executing this pathetic madman would do nothing to stop other mentally ill individuals from committing similar atrocities .
Mentally ill people who commit horrible crimes should not be executed, period .
 

musterion

Well-known member
This is one deranged guy who should be kept in an institute for the criminally insane for life . Executing this pathetic madman would do nothing to stop other mentally ill individuals from committing similar atrocities .
Mentally ill people who commit horrible crimes should not be executed, period .

You're a sodomite so your analysis holds no weight.
 

rexlunae

New member
This man will never face the death penalty but if he had, would killing him make us "no better than he is"?

No. That's really not an argument against the death penalty that I'd advocate. You don't have to stoop to a level as perverse as the worst criminal for it to be unjustifiable.
 

musterion

Well-known member
No. That's really not an argument against the death penalty that I'd advocate. You don't have to stoop to a level as perverse as the worst criminal for it to be unjustifiable.

So you're saying the DP is justifiable, depending on the crime?
 

rexlunae

New member
So you're saying the DP is justifiable, depending on the crime?

No. I'm saying that it isn't necessary that the DP be as bad as what the worst criminal can do for it to be wrong. I think that we should hold the justice system to a higher standard than that.
 

Rusha

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
This is one deranged guy who should be kept in an institute for the criminally insane for life . Executing this pathetic madman would do nothing to stop other mentally ill individuals from committing similar atrocities .
Mentally ill people who commit horrible crimes should not be executed, period .

This isn't about stopping all *mentally ill people* or all madmen. It's about stopping one. One less threat to society.
 

rexlunae

New member
This is one deranged guy who should be kept in an institute for the criminally insane for life . Executing this pathetic madman would do nothing to stop other mentally ill individuals from committing similar atrocities .
Mentally ill people who commit horrible crimes should not be executed, period .

You're making a big assumption that's not in evidence; namely that this guy has a real mental illness. I don't think that's a given. There's a tendency to try to distance ourselves from those who do horrible things by pathologizing their mental states because we don't want to believe that they are like us, but the reality is that people who are psychologically normal (necrophilia is a parapelia, which isn't especially rare, and doesn't automatically lead to murder or other crimes) can do horrible things.

This is perhaps an understandable reaction, but it carries with it a significant downside:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...oes-committing-rape-mean-you-are-mentally-ill
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
This man will never face the death penalty but if he had, would killing him make us "no better than he is"?

http://nypost.com/2016/06/03/necrophiliac-gets-26-years-for-killing-teacher-on-first-date/
I've always hated that approach. Killing him wouldn't make us like him unless we did it for pleasure.

You're making a big assumption that's not in evidence; namely that this guy has a real mental illness. I don't think that's a given. There's a tendency to try to distance ourselves from those who do horrible things by pathologizing their mental states because we don't want to believe that they are like us, but the reality is that people who are psychologically normal (necrophilia is a parapelia, which isn't especially rare, and doesn't automatically lead to murder or other crimes) can do horrible things.

This is perhaps an understandable reaction, but it carries with it a significant downside:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...oes-committing-rape-mean-you-are-mentally-ill
I think there are people who are sick to the point where they don't or can't appreciate the moral implication of their actions and I think there are also people who, while perfectly sane in a clinical sense, choose to do what most would call evil. Evil in its most narcissistic, malicious sense is unfathomable to most of us, will confound us on some level. It has a rationality to it, but that course of reason is so alien as to appear much the same as and to approach insanity when we consider it from a more humane context.
 

musterion

Well-known member
No. I'm saying that it isn't necessary that the DP be as bad as what the worst criminal can do for it to be wrong. I think that we should hold the justice system to a higher standard than that.

So you're saying the DP is never justified under any circumstances?
 

rexlunae

New member
So you're saying the DP is never justified under any circumstances?

I'm not saying that either, though I think I agree with it. I'm just pointing out that what you said at the top isn't necessary to DP opposition, and I don't think many DP opponents would make that argument. There are certainly circumstances where it's pretty hard to sympathize with the offenders. The reasons, in my mind, to oppose the DP are more about what it makes of the rest of us than they are about the outcomes for the worst of the worst criminals.
 

The Horn

BANNED
Banned
Musterion, I'm a "sodomite "? I'm not even gay ! You're assuming I'm gay just because I believe in gay rights . Well, I also believe in animal rights, so I guess this makes me a cow .
The word "sodomite " should be retired from the English language . The term "sodomy " h as NOTHING to do with homosexuality .
The inhabitants of the (entirely mythical ) city of Sodom were destroyed by God not because of homosexuality, but because they were cruel, selfish , callous and inhospitable;e .
 

PureX

Well-known member
Because we are not God, we do not have the right nor the ability to judge, condemn, and punish others for their sins.

The state, however, has the right and the obligation to protect us all from each other. It is a right and an obligation that we have given it, collectively. Thus, although the state does not have a right to judge, condemn and punish people for their sins, it does have the right to judge, condemn and respond to our criminal actions in the interest of public safety and security.

I believe that in the interest of public security the state does have the right to end the lives of human beings who show themselves to be an ongoing threat to the lives of others. Serial killers, serial kidnappers, torturers, and rapists, terrorists, and people who kill while incarcerated are, in my mind, people who have shown us that they will be an ongoing threat to the lives of others. And as such, I do not believe that society has any obligation to accept that threat in keeping them alive.

This particular killing is borderline. It's possible that the killer suffers from some treatable mental condition. And once treated, would pose no further obvious threat. However, if such could not be shown to be the case, the random opportunistic nature of the crime, and the irrationality of it's reasoning would indicate, to my mind, that this man does pose an ongoing threat that society is not obliged to accept. And thus would warrant his execution.
 
Top