ECT Question for everyone who says "There's only ONE gospel in the Bible"

[turbosixx]

In the dispensation of the grace of God. It's saved first, works after.

Eph 2:8-10 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (2:10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
​

I don't disagree with that but that isn't faith alone.

In attempting to ADD works to grace you have nullified grace.

I'm not adding anything that isn't already there.

I agree with ALL of God's Word. But I also know that the circumcision apostles were not the ones that God gave the dispensation of the grace of God. You will not find the doctrine for the dispensation of the grace of God anywhere but in Paul's epistles.

Paul's epistles are written to Christians. People who have already been added to the church. To see what it takes to be added to the church we need to look at what those who were added were taught and what they did to get added. Paul added some of those people. What did he teach them and what did they do in response?

 

[Right Divider]

I don't disagree with that but that isn't faith alone.

To receive eternal life it most certainly is.

I'm not adding anything that isn't already there.

So you believe that God's grace is not enough to save someone.... got it.

Paul's epistles are written to Christians. People who have already been added to the church. To see what it takes to be added to the church we need to look at what those who were added were taught and what they did to get added. Paul added some of those people. What did he teach them and what did they do in response?

Paul is the pattern that we are to follow. You cannot follow a pattern before it's created.

You can try to be an Israelite if you like.

 

[turbosixx]

Paul is the pattern that we are to follow. You cannot follow a pattern before it's created.

I don't understand how Paul is the pattern. He became a Christian the same way as those before him.

18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized;

 

[Right Divider]

I don't understand how Paul is the pattern. He became a Christian the same way as those before him.

18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized;

No mention of water there. I know that you love the water ceremony.

Paul never once commands anyone to get wet to get saved.

Titus 3:3-7 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:3) For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [and] hating one another. (3:4) But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, (3:5) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (3:6) Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; (3:7) That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. ​

According to His MERCY He saved us.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Although the bible never says faith alone saves, people will say so till they are red in the face.

If you believe Paul it only takes one thing to be saved:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

If it takes more then why didn't Paul say so?

 

[turbosixx]

No mention of water there. I know that you love the water ceremony.

Paul never once commands anyone to get wet to get saved.

Titus 3:3-7 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:3) For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [and] hating one another. (3:4) But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, (3:5) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (3:6) Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; (3:7) That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. ​

According to His MERCY He saved us.

This is not water?

Acts 18: 8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.

 

[turbosixx]

If you believe Paul it only takes one thing to be saved:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).

If it takes more then why didn't Paul say so?

Do you believe Jesus?
Mk.16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Paul baptized the jailer as Jesus instructed.

 

[Right Divider]

This is not water?

Acts 18: 8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.

The SYNAGOGUE people.... yes ... lots of water...

The other point being is that even if Paul was water baptized:

• The one that baptized Paul was a devout JEW (Acts 22:12). What else would someone that was REQUIRED to be water baptized do?
• Paul never ONCE commands anyone in the body of Christ to be water baptized.
• Paul says that for the body of Christ there is ONE baptism and THAT baptism is SPIRIT and not WATER.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Do you believe Jesus?
Mk.16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

You didn't tell me why Paul only mentioned faith and nothing else. All you did was to run to something else:

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mk.16:16).

Here the Lord is not saying that a requirement for salvation is baptism with water, but instead He is describing those who will be saved. This is similiar to the following words of the Lord:

"And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life" (Mt.19:29).​

Here the Lord says that those who have forsaken their families will receive everlasting life, but surely no one will argue that this is a requirement for salvation. Instead, the Lord is merely describing many who will be saved. Therefore we can understand that at Mark 16:16 the Lord Jesus is merely describing those who will be saved.

According to Paul the gospel is the power of salvation to all who believe:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).

According to your ideas no one is saved by believing the gospel because no one is saved until they believe and then are baptized with water!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Paul says that for the body of Christ there is ONE baptism and THAT baptism is SPIRIT and not WATER.

EXACTLY!

The words of Paul in regard that "one" baptism is given for the unity of the Spirit among believers (Eph.4:3-5). And ignoring what Paul said about that has caused much division among believers.

 

[God's Truth]

EXACTLY!

The words of Paul in regard that "one" baptism is given for the unity of the Spirit among believers (Eph.4:3-5). And ignoring what Paul said about that has caused much division among believers.

One baptism is about receiving the Holy Spirit. It does not mean we don't have to get water baptized. Just like we have to obey and not commit adultery, we have to get water baptized.

 

[Bright Raven]

One baptism is about receiving the Holy Spirit. It does not mean we don't have to get water baptized. Just like we have to obey and not commit adultery, we have to get water baptized.

Water Baptism is not a requirement for anything. It is only an outward sign of an inward change.

 

[God's Truth]

Water Baptism is not a requirement for anything. It is only an outward sign of an inward change.

It is a requirement.

 

[Bright Raven]

It is a requirement.

Not!!! A requirement for what? More of your unscriptural garbage.

 

[turbosixx]

even if Paul was water baptized:

You don't agree he was?

[*]The one that baptized Paul was a devout JEW (Acts 22:12). What else would someone that was REQUIRED to be water baptized do?

I believe it's because Jesus instructed baptism.

[*]Paul never ONCE commands anyone in the body of Christ to be water baptized.

When we read of Paul's conversions, he baptized them.

[*]Paul says that for the body of Christ there is ONE baptism and THAT baptism is SPIRIT and not WATER.

It's water.

 

[turbosixx]

You didn't tell me why Paul only mentioned faith and nothing else. All you did was to run to something else:

Paul told him to believe in Jesus, he had never heard of Jesus. How could he obey something he never heard?

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned"

If you will read the parallel passage in Matthew of this same conversation, it will make more sense.

Here the Lord is not saying that a requirement for salvation is baptism with water, but instead He is describing those who will be saved. This is similiar to the following words of the Lord:

"And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life" (Mt.19:29).​

Here the Lord says that those who have forsaken their families will receive everlasting life, but surely no one will argue that this is a requirement for salvation. Instead, the Lord is merely describing many who will be saved. Therefore we can understand that at Mark 16:16 the Lord Jesus is merely describing those who will be saved.

Do you think it's wise to use an unrelated teaching to nullify what Jesus commanded?

According to Paul the gospel is the power of salvation to all who believe:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).

According to your ideas no one is saved by believing the gospel because no one is saved until they believe and then are baptized with water!

What does it mean to believe? Mental understanding? Something else?

 

[Right Divider]

You don't agree he was?

The scripture does not say 100% one way or the other.

I believe it's because Jesus instructed baptism.

Indeed, when He was a minister of the circumcision (Roman 15:8).

When we read of Paul's conversions, he baptized them.

And he also said that Christ sent him NOT to baptize, but to preach the gospel.... I'm sure that you do not understand the contrast there.

It's water.

That is crazy. You have a serious issue with your obsession with the water ceremony for Israel.

So the one baptism for the body of Christ is not this one?

1Cor 12:13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
​

Yes, it's that one!

 

[turbosixx]

And he also said that Christ sent him NOT to baptize, but to preach the gospel.... I'm sure that you do not understand the contrast there.

Paul wrote that letter on his 3rd journey. After he had baptized all the people he converted, including some in this letter. If you take an honest look at the context, he is not saying Jesus instructed him not to baptize.

So the one baptism for the body of Christ is not this one?

1Cor 12:13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
​

When those at Corinth heard read this letter, do you think that see this as spiritual baptism or when they were water baptized the spirit added them to the body as we see here.
Acts 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

 

[Right Divider]

Paul wrote that letter on his 3rd journey. After he had baptized all the people he converted, including some in this letter. If you take an honest look at the context, he is not saying Jesus instructed him not to baptize.

Paul said that Christ sent him not to baptize, but to preach the gospel.

When those at Corinth heard read this letter, do you think that see this as spiritual baptism or when they were water baptized the spirit added them to the body as we see here.
Acts 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Once AGAIN, you go back to the time BEFORE the gospel of the grace of God was committed to Paul.

Acts 2:41-47 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:41) ¶ Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls. (2:42) And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. (2:43) And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. (2:44) And all that believed were together, and had all things common; (2:45) And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need. (2:46) And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, (2:47) Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. ​

Why don't you and those like you have all things in common? Do you not believe the Bible? Are you daily with one accord in the temple?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What does it mean to believe? Mental understanding? Something else?

If you don't know that then I have a hard time believing that you are actually saved. Because those of us with true faith have the "evidence of things not seen" (Heb.11:1).

If you have the evidence then you would know that true faith is not just a mental understanding. After all, this is what Paul said about the faith of those who actually believe what the Scriptures reveal:

"That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" (1 Cor.2:5).​

Those of us with true faith have been given an understanding of these things by the Lord:

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ" (1 Jn.5:20).

Those of us with true faith know of the things which are "freely" given to us and that by itself excludes the idea that a person must submit to the rite of water baptism to be saved:

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God" (1 Cor.2:12).​

If you have received the Spirit which is of God then you would know that what Paul answered in the following passage is the absolute truth:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

The reason why you do not believe what Paul said there is because you put more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures say than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.