ECT Q for those who believe in salvation by grace thru faith in Christ w/o works
- Thread starter musterion
- Start date
Hah - you have just given away that you ARE a female, after all :chuckle:
Still, good to see you laugh - you are too serious.
God's Truth
New member
Just because I said I will think about it does not mean I am female.:chuckle:
Actually, I inadvertently did myself a favor by calling you and yours out.
I'd wondered how genuine your smilies were; given that you too often judge "according to appearances."
Obviously, a friend, I have not lost.
Can't lose what one never had.
"We'll always have" JS, gd..." :chuckle:
God's Truth
New member
No shame - you're as tough as Tam and GD, and then some
Maybe you misunderstand too much?
Yes?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Yeah right. I judge you by what comes out of your mouth.
glorydaz
Well-known member
No shame - you're as tough as Tam and GD, and then some
I think you're drunk. Otherwise you wouldn't be making such a fool of yourself.
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
1. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
1. Porro fides est rerum sperandarum substantia, demonstratio eorum quae non videntur.
1. Now faith, etc. Whoever made this the beginning of the eleventh chapter, has unwisely disjointed the context; for the object of the Apostle was to prove what he had already said that there is need of patience. [200] He had quoted the testimony of Habakkuk, who says that the just lives by faith; he now shows what remained to be proved -- that faith can be no more separated from patience than from itself. The order then of what he says is this, -- "We shall not reach the goal of salvation except we have patience, for the Prophet declares that the just lives by faith; but faith directs us to things afar off which we do not as yet enjoy; it then necessarily includes patience." Therefore the minor proposition in the argument is this, Faith is the substance of things hoped for, etc. It is hence also evident, that greatly mistaken are they who think that an exact definition of faith is given here; for the Apostle does not speak here of the whole of what faith is, but selects that part of it which was suitable to his purpose, even that it has patience ever connected with it. [201] Let us now consider the words.
He calls faith the hypostasis, the substance of things hoped for. We indeed know that what we hope for is not what we have as it were in hand, but what is as yet hid from us, or at least the enjoyment of which is delayed to another time. The Apostle now teaches us the same thing with what we find in*Romans 8:24; where it is said that what is hoped for is not seen, and hence the inference is drawn, that it is to be waited for in patience. So the Apostle here reminds us, that faith regards not present things, but such as are waited for. Nor is this kind of contradiction without its force and beauty: Faith, he says, is the hypostasis, the prop, or the foundation on which we plant our foot, -- the prop of what? Of things absent, which are so far from being really possessed by us, that they are far beyond the reach of our understanding.
The same view is to be taken of the second clause, when he calls faith the evidence or demonstration of things not seen; for demonstration makes things to appear or to be seen; and it is commonly applied to what is subject to our senses. [202]
Then these two things, though apparently inconsistent, do yet perfectly harmonize when we speak of faith; for the Spirit of God shows to us hidden things, the knowledge of which cannot reach our senses: Promised to us is eternal life, but it is promised to the dead; we are assured of a happy resurrection, but we are as yet involved in corruption; we are pronounced just, as yet sin dwells in us; we hear that we are happy, but we are as yet in the midst of many miseries; an abundance of all good things is promised to us, but still we often hunger and thirst; God proclaims that he will come quickly, but he seems deaf when we cry to him. What would become of us were we not supported by hope, and did not our minds emerge out of the midst of darkness above the world through the light of God's word and of his Spirit? Faith, then, is rightly said to be the subsistence or substance of things which are as yet the objects of hope and the evidence of things not seen. Augustine sometimes renders evidence "conviction," which I do not disapprove, for it faithfully expresses the Apostle's meaning: but I prefer "demonstration," as it is more literal.
Footnotes:
[200] Griesbach makes the division at the thirty-eighth verse of the last chapter, and this is no doubt what the subject requires. -- Ed.
[201] "Faith is here generally described, not only as it justifies, but also as it acts towards God and lays hold on his promises, works, and blessings revealed in his word, past, present, and future." -- Pareus.
[202] The two words "substance" and "evidence" have been variously rendered, though the meaning continues materially the same: "substinance" and "demonstration" by Beza: "confident expectation" and "conviction" by Grotius and Doddridge: "confidence" and "evidence" by Macknight: "confidence" and "convincing evidence" by Stuart. When the primary meaning of words is suitable, there is no necessity of having recourse to what is secondary. The first word means properly a foundation, a basis, a prop, a support: and what can be more appropriate here? Faith is the basis or the prop (as Calvin renders it in his exposition) of things hoped for; that is, faith is the foundation of hope; it is the fulcrum on which hope rests. The other word is properly "demonstration" a proof supported by reasons -- what is made clear and evident. Conviction is the result of demonstration. So, then, the meaning is this -- faith sustains hope, and exhibits to view things unseen: it is the basis on which the objects of hope rest, and the demonstration or manifestation of what is not seen. The word "substance" is derived from the Vulgate: though its etymological meaning corresponds with the original, yet its received meaning is quite different. The original word occurs five times in the New Testament, and is rendered "confidence" in*2 Corinthians 9:4,*2 Corinthians 11:17;*Hebrews 3:14, -- "person" in*Hebrews 1:3, -- and here "substance;" but why not its more literal meaning, "foundation?" The things "hoped for" include the promises; but the things "not seen," all that is revealed as to what is past and is to come, -- the creation, the future destiny of man, etc. -- Ed.
Found at biblehub.com
Hmm, Tulipbottom. So you can write proper after all. Fantastic; drop the hip bop from now on OK.
Even when you do you still show yourself to be a complete tosser.
I see this as another problem with Calvinism: Arrogance.
I thought God owned the whole world?
Psalm 50:12
If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.
Hint for you Jimmy boy. Get a Bible, open it, then READ it.
This is a loaded question . You "can" turn from sin , that is what repentance is and what is required to turn from our own lives , and step towards Christ . But the second half of the question "to stop sinning" not possible and certainly has no part in the Salvation process .
As for the "stop sinning" part of your question , the best we can hope for it to be sanctified from our sinful nature . That means we are in this world still sinning , but in the eyes of Christ we are separated from those sins to the point where Paul says in Rom 7:14-21 "it is not me doing it anymore but sin dwelling in me thats doing it ."
Justification could come up in this topic . The simple definition of being justified , is God sees us just like Christ ...
God's Truth
New member
John 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, “See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.”
1 Corinthians 15:34 Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame.
2 Peter 2:14 With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood!
Now you have been shown by Jesus when he walked the earth that you are to STOP SINNING.
You have also been shown by Paul to STOP SINNING.
And you have been shown by Peter to STOP SINNING.
So what will you do?
musterion
Well-known member
Is being willing to clean up one's life, to turn from sin, or to stop sinning a required part of getting saved?
God's Truth
New member
It is.
musterion
Well-known member
That requires no faith. It means you're helping God save you. Which means you're quite lost.
God's Truth
New member
It doesn't mean I am helping God anymore than you claiming you are helping God when you obey by having faith.
Right Divider
Body part
And yet here you are posting in it.
I believe that the reason that musterion started this is because there are some who:
- Claim that repent means "stop sinning"
- That to "get saved" and "stay saved" a person must "repent" based on that ridiculously wrong definition of repent.
God's Truth
New member
So God was wrong for saying it in the Old Testament that the people should repent of their SINS?
So Jesus was wrong when he preached it when he walked the earth and when he ascended to heaven?